Reaction Speed and Range: R3 vs. Max 360

The Mighty Four Banger

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So I finally got an opportunity to swipe an escort max 360 to use against my personal guardian and @hydroflask 's other Uniden R3. I decided to test something that has been bothering me for a while now. I included a few scientific flaws that may have occurred so I do plan on executing a more thorough and scientific test, although I do believe this test has enough merit to be considered a good indication of the true results - if there is later found to be any difference at all. Thanks to @hydroflask for helping test.

Objective:
To measure the effect that distance has on radar detector reaction time.

Good Idea In My Head:
I obtained a guest max 360 and two Uniden R3s to test against a Stalker ATR (34.7), Kustom Golden Eagle in k and Ka (24.15/35.5), and a Kustom Tracker (for stopwatch). The process was to test reaction time at a reasonably close distance, and then go to each detector's range boundary while I would then simulate a maximum range IO sniff alternating between the three detectors and three guns.

Actual Procedure:
I tested all guns and detectors at close range but did not even try to shoot the 360 with the 24.15 antenna again after I could not get it to alert at the designated close range. Results can be found in the table. I then had the detector car drive down a road and turn around and travel until it got a sniff od the CO 35.5 gun. I used the 35.5 gun because I knew it would be harder to detect. The detector car would then pull over at that spot and the gun would be placed into hold to perform some IO shots. IO shots would be performed in the same spot with both guns per detector. Both R3s were tested in the same spot as well. This means the target car only moved between the 360 trials and the R3 trials.

Overall Notes:
1) A phone call on speaker mode was used so that I, the radar operator could tell when to stop the stopwatch based on detector audio alert. If you're going to say that there is a delay in phone call reception or comment on my imperfect reaction time, I will admit that you are correct to some degree. However, in pure scientific fashion, I made sure that to the best of my ability everything was consistent as possible. So if for whatever reason my results are not accurate I will defend that they are precise.
2) the max 360 would not alert to the KGE 24.15 antenna... I have no idea why as I do remember it working with this gun a few months ago.
3)The course may have been terrain limited as there was a metal fence and bush in the way, I was mostly trying to cut some distance off so the R3 didn't crush my course and simulate some in the jungle shots where you may not be in direct line of sight with the transmitting antenna.
4) The 360 and R3 alerted to the KGE in roughly the same place. However, the 360 had a slightly higher strength against 34.7 and the R3 had a noticeably higher alert strength on 34.7 compared to the max 360, it was almost full tilt. Like I said, I did not adjust distances for the 34.7 because I wanted to keep some consistency.
5) both Uniden R3s performed so similarily that I decided to combine their results into one "R3" entry.
6) the Kustom Tracker worked wonderfully as the stopwatch.
7) both detectors received a roughly .5 second QT shot in all instances, and all tests were at least 15 seconds apart. There were no instances where either detector missed an alert. The exception was on 24.15 where it was just standard IO until an alert, I just didn't try QT shots for whatever reason.
8) Both Uniden's are on FW 1.50, 360 being on FW 1.4

Close Range Notes:
1) I have no idea why the max 360 did not alert to 24.15...
2) the detectors were facing away from the source but had a massive terrain object (building) in front of them to cause reflections. This was not done on purpose but just because that's where the detector vehicle happened to be parked.
3) the distance was around 30 feet.

Yes, I took the picture with a potato and will probably take a better one tomorrow.
C5DC83D2-4C26-4B19-BDA2-9D013B25BE09.jpeg



Long Range Notes:
1) the imperfect terrain probably looks worse than it is with the metal fence, where the car was positioned it was more of behind the bush than anything else.

Results:

Close Range​

Detector/Radar bandAverage Time (seconds)
Uniden R3, 34.7instant (less than 0.1 seconds)
escort max 360, 34.71.5
Uniden R3, 35.5instant (less than 0.1 seconds)
escort max 360, 35.51.5
Uniden R3, 24.153.1
escort max 360, 24.15no alert :police3:


Long Range​

Detector/Radar BandAverage Time (seconds)
Uniden R3, 34.7.6
escort max 360, 34.71.5
Uniden R3, 35.5.6
escort max 360, 35.51.6
Uniden R3, 24.15not tested
escort 360, 24.15not tested
Findings:




1) The R3 beat out the 360 (as expected) although I will again note that neither detector missed any shots on Ka band.
2) Both detectors picked up a delay when placed near their respective maximum detection distances. The R3 reaction time was hurt more than the 360's reaction time.

Conclusion:
While radio waves travel at the speed of light, I expected range that hurt signal strength would also hurt detection time because it is harder to detect a weaker signal. Well turns out I think I'm right - at least on some detectors over others. I suspect that the delay in the 360 was only slightly increased because even though the detector would catch .5 second shots, it would take it 1.5+ seconds to alert to it and somehow that translates to only a slight increase over the R3's comparatively noticeable increase. In regards to range actually hurting overall performance, I predict that it hurts performance in all detectors. I am no RF Engineer so I don't know if the delay was caused because detecting a weaker signal is more strenuous for a detector or because a weaker signal means fewer radar waves bouncing around into the horn. Regardless, here is my current datapoint.

If I missed anything, let me know. I probably forgot something that I will edit in whenever I remember.
 
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InsipidMonkey

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Nice job, and great idea for a test! So this was comparing reaction time of the detectors at close range versus at "fringe" range?

Can you list the settings and firmware versions on each detector? Things like Highway/City/Advanced/Auto mode and K filtering settings would be very important in a test like this.
 

oversteer325

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Interesting idea for a test! Thanks for taking the time and effort to test it out. Great job!!
Two-way radios might be a good way to reduce the cell phone lag.
 
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The Mighty Four Banger

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Nice job, and great idea for a test! So this was comparing reaction time of the detectors at close range versus at "fringe" range?

Can you list the settings and firmware versions on each detector? Things like Highway/City/Advanced/Auto mode and K filtering settings would be very important in a test like this.
Both unidens are set up in my running preference: x off, K narrow with filter and TSF on, Ka segged out with no filter. Laser off on one and on with the other. Both FW 1.5

360 FW 1.4 on auto noX, tsf on, I left it how it is used by the owner even though I set it up for him lol.
Band Modifies enables all on except Ka pop, auto learn on
Post automatically merged:

Interesting idea for a test! Thanks for taking the time and effort to test it out. Great job!!
Two-way radios might be a good way to reduce the cell phone lag.
That’s what I thought but I made due with what’s available. The unidens had virtually no delay even on the phone so I wasn’t particularly worried about it
 
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InsipidMonkey

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Both unidens are set up in my running preference: x off, K narrow with filter and TSF on, Ka segged out with no filter. Laser off on one and on with the other. Both FW 1.5

360 FW 1.4 on auto noX, I left it how it is used by the owner even though I set it up for him lol.
Band Modifies enables all on except Ka pop, auto learn on
Post automatically merged:


That’s what I thought but I made due with what’s available. The unidens had virtually no delay even on the phone so I wasn’t particularly worried about it
Auto mode on the 360 and TSF/K filter on the R3 likely had a large impact on the results, and probably also explains why the 360 didn't alert to K band when stationary.
 

OBeerWANKenobi

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What's it about 24.150 that Escorts don't like to alert to? Seems to be becoming a theme.

ETA: didn't see monkey's post before mine. I agree on TSF possibly causing an increased time over the longer distance. Don't know about Auto-mode on the Escort.
 
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The Mighty Four Banger

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Auto mode on the 360 and TSF/K filter on the R3 likely had a large impact on the results, and probably also explains why the 360 didn't alert to K band when stationary.
Noted and thank you, the 360 was on highway when I used it last. The R3 has always had a few seconds delay. I updated the the OP to avoid confusion but the n/a in the chart means not tested.
 

dudeinnz

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Cool testing!

What was the distance on the Long range test?
Also, while I have some idea why you did this type of testing, I would like to hear your “real life scenario” where such a test would be relevant.
 

The Mighty Four Banger

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Cool testing!

What was the distance on the Long range test?
Also, while I have some idea why you did this type of testing, I would like to hear your “real life scenario” where such a test would be relevant.
The GPS coordinates were lost and I really don’t want to guess, distances will be much more significant in a follow up test. approximate distance was 0.47 miles based off of the KGE

the main reason behind this test was to see if IO or QT range is less than the CO range that we all test on. Reaction times were just out of curiosity but I wanted to see if aggressive QT would become more dangerous the further from the source. I tried to maintain equal shot length through the whole test and it seemed to have no effect on detection ability. I used .5 second shots (or as close as I can get to that) for a certain reason in case you’re wondering where that came from.
 
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DC Fluid

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I noticed the delay on K band with my Bushnell Velocity and R7.
I get different delay times with different settings like Narrow vs. Wide, TSF on/off, K filter on/off.
However a specific result is hard to get consistent.
Sometimes the 1.5 second delay, others instant.
It's like the detector needs to be woken up on a first shot then responds quicker, but not always.
With all filters on and set on Wide the R7 always has the delay for me.
With the reverse settings it is 75/25 in delay/no delay.
 

The Mighty Four Banger

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I noticed the delay on K band with my Bushnell Velocity and R7.
I get different delay times with different settings like Narrow vs. Wide, TSF on/off, K filter on/off.
However a specific result is hard to get consistent.
Sometimes the 1.5 second delay, others instant.
It's like the detector needs to be woken up on a first shot then responds quicker, but not always.
With all filters on and set on Wide the R7 always has the delay for me.
With the reverse settings it is 75/25 in delay/no delay.
This is kind of what I saw when I was playing with updates between the whole 1.46/1.48 deal. Tsf seems to me like it’s a lot less intrusive now but I’ve been driving with it on and off to see falses.

when you shoot the defector rapidly, it sometimes seems to catch the follow up shots very easily so it’s just that initial shot that I was worried about and trying to get. I’ve been wanting to test k reactivity because I’ve done some really informal stuff but my results kind of lead to k being cut down from 6 seconds (1.46) to 3 seconds. (1.48 and on)

I do recall the detector missing some aggressive QT shots but of course nothing I remember well and nothing that happens on Ka
 

NorEaster18

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Thank you for this test! The results are quite interesting. This might help to explain my recent state police K band encounter a little better. I do run K Filter/Narrow/TSF/Advanced on 1.50, and thought my range in a particular encounter was a little lower than expected (to be fair, there was a small crest). I always figured TSF provides a bit of delay, and the testing proves that. Thankfully, it also helps filtering and with traffic sensors immensely, which is why I run it despite seeing so much K band.

What a lot of people may not think about, however, is how much longer a reaction is to K band. It's not like Ka, where you hear the chirp and slow down. You also have to factor in your personal reaction time in deciphering if it's a false or not. Adding the TSF delay on top of the reaction delay could be costly if you aren't careful.
 

The Mighty Four Banger

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Thank you for this test! The results are quite interesting. This might help to explain my recent state police K band encounter a little better. I do run K Filter/Narrow/TSF/Advanced on 1.50, and thought my range in a particular encounter was a little lower than expected (to be fair, there was a small crest). I always figured TSF provides a bit of delay, and the testing proves that. Thankfully, it also helps filtering and with traffic sensors immensely, which is why I run it despite seeing so much K band.

What a lot of people may not think about, however, is how much longer a reaction is to K band. It's not like Ka, where you hear the chirp and slow down. You also have to factor in your personal reaction time in deciphering if it's a false or not. Adding the TSF delay on top of the reaction delay could be costly if you aren't careful.
Yeah unfortunately there is a trade off, luckily they give us the option to choose ourselves. That being said I am much happier than with the 1.48 update. I had some 24.167 constant on come out of a roundabout combined with severe terrain obstruction and it probably would’ve killed me if I didn’t just get cut off by someone.
 

oversteer325

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This is kind of what I saw when I was playing with updates between the whole 1.46/1.48 deal. Tsf seems to me like it’s a lot less intrusive now but I’ve been driving with it on and off to see falses.

when you shoot the defector rapidly, it sometimes seems to catch the follow up shots very easily so it’s just that initial shot that I was worried about and trying to get. I’ve been wanting to test k reactivity because I’ve done some really informal stuff but my results kind of lead to k being cut down from 6 seconds (1.46) to 3 seconds. (1.48 and on)

I do recall the detector missing some aggressive QT shots but of course nothing I remember well and nothing that happens on Ka
I’m confused about your 3 and 6 second comments. Other testing I’ve seen show K reactivity with TSF to be very good with 1.48/1.50 as in able to catch QT shots and very close to 1.37 fast. I know 1.46 had delay issues but there is no way I’d run TSF if it takes a 3+ second trigger pull to alert. Am I interpreting your results incorrectly?
 

The Mighty Four Banger

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I’m confused about your 3 and 6 second comments. Other testing I’ve seen show K reactivity with TSF to be very good with 1.48/1.50 as in able to catch QT shots and very close to 1.37 fast. I know 1.46 had delay issues but there is no way I’d run TSF if it takes a 3+ second trigger pull to alert. Am I interpreting your results incorrectly?
6 seconds has nothing to do with this test, I was getting plenty off long hits like that when I was messing with 1.46 a while ago. TSF really hasn’t made much of a difference to me on 1.48/1.50
 

The Mighty Four Banger

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Cool testing!

What was the distance on the Long range test?
Also, while I have some idea why you did this type of testing, I would like to hear your “real life scenario” where such a test would be relevant.
The range which was for the KGE was a lot farther than I thought and probably had quite a bit of terrain limitation explaining why both detectors alerted in the same area. There was still a good gap on 34.7 though but using the google maps measuring stick it was .47 miles.
 

RoadDogg

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@The Mighty Four Banger, I have a quick question for you regarding your Kustom Signals Golden Eagle. I just bought a Golden Eagle this past week. It came with two Ka band antennas. I have searched online and on EBay yesterday for a K-band antenna to use with my Golden Eagle. Will any Kustom Signals K-band antenna that has the same connector as my Ka band antennas work? (I have the original Golden Eagle not the II). Did yours come with separate Ka and K band antennas when you bought it? Also, does your K-band antenna have a part # listed on it? The antennas are not too expensive, but I just want to make sure I buy a K-band antenna that will work with my Golden Eagle.

Also, do all the Golden Eagles have the option to switch out Ka and K band antennas? I just started researching this on the RDF and on line, and I ran across a review by Vortex from 2014 stating some of the Golden Eagles have this option.

EDIT: I have just found some old posts on the RDF regarding this exact question, but I would welcome your input and anyone else’s (especially if you have a part# on your K-band antenna).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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TurboDriver

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@The Mighty Four Banger, I have a quick question for you regarding your Kustom Signals Golden Eagle. I just bought a Golden Eagle this past week. It came with two Ka band antennas. I have searched online and on EBay yesterday for a K-band antenna to use with my Golden Eagle. Will any Kustom Signals K-band antenna that has the same connector as my Ka band antennas work? (I have the original Golden Eagle not the II). Did yours come with separate Ka and K band antennas when you bought it? Also, does your K-band antenna have a part # listed on it? The antennas are not too expensive, but I just want to make sure I buy a K-band antenna that will work with my Golden Eagle.

Also, do all the Golden Eagles have the option to switch out Ka and K band antennas? I just started researching this on the RDF and on line, and I ran across a review by Vortex from 2014 stating some of the Golden Eagles have this option.

EDIT: I have just found some old posts on the RDF regarding this exact question, but I would welcome your input and anyone else’s (especially if you have a part# on your K-band antenna).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, it should work. I have a Golden Eagle and the K antenna from my Kustom Pro 1000ds works on the Eagle. The cables are the same for the antennas, so as long as the connectors are the same it should be fine.
 

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