Parking ticket private property

rj0

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I got a parking ticket on private property from a real police officer, I logged online to the website on the ticket as well as called to dispute the ticket but the department has no knowledge of the ticket and online after entering the ticket number nothing comes up. Should I throw it out? I don't want to get late fees or anything, this is becoming a hassle over nothing.
 

DocTJ

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If it just happened then Its probably not in their system yet, id wait a few days and call again to verify its authenticity.
Details on why you got a ticket on private property (besides that NJ LEOs are power tripping steroid taking abuse of power monsters)
 

rj0

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If it just happened then Its probably not in their system yet, id wait a few days and call again to verify its authenticity.
Details on why you got a ticket on private property (besides that NJ LEOs are power tripping steroid taking abuse of power monsters)
it's been 19 days i've been logging on and calling every few days to check
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i parked in white lines at my apartment complex and they called a police officer to give me a ticket
 

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I agree with the above, it may just not be in their system.
There have been numerous incidents reported of LEOs giving tickets on "private property" especially in handicap spaces or fire lanes. Where you in either, and was it a mall, apartment complex or just some individuals' residence, and what were the signs that were posted. More details necessary . . .
 

rj0

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I agree with the above, it may just not be in their system.
There have been numerous incidents reported of LEOs giving tickets on "private property" especially in handicap spaces or fire lanes. Where you in either, and was it a mall, apartment complex or just some individuals' residence, and what were the signs that were posted. More details necessary . . .
no signs posted, apartment complex private parking lot with gated entry. i don't disagree that where i parked wasn't a real parking spot but i don't understand why a real police officer gave me a ticket
 

poolmon

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no signs posted, apartment complex private parking lot with gated entry. i don't disagree that where i parked wasn't a real parking spot but i don't understand why a real police officer gave me a ticket
I've run across other reports of this, and in particular in NJ.
Does the citation list the specific offense and code section and jurisdiction?

For example, I just ran across the following code for New Brunswick, NJ that clearly references prohibited private property parking violations. In any event, I'd take it to the jurisdiction that enforces it to see why it is not in the system.
Park.JPG
 
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Bocephus

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Based on the size of the agency it could take sometime for it to go through. If you want to be done with it take the ticket to the Clerks office (FL here), and they can validate it into a suspense account until the parking ticket is available. Parking is usually slower than traffic citations.
 

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Based on the size of the agency it could take sometime for it to go through. If you want to be done with it take the ticket to the Clerks office (FL here), and they can validate it into a suspense account until the parking ticket is available. Parking is usually slower than traffic citations.
Why? Generally they have to send a courtesy notice to the owner of the vehicle (in case the ticket was removed prior to the owner returning to the vehicle). If there's no notice, it's not a legal ticket. Also, I suspect that this ticket may not even be legal in the first place. What statute gives cops the authority to issue tickets on private property?
 

thefrog1394

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Why? Generally they have to send a courtesy notice to the owner of the vehicle (in case the ticket was removed prior to the owner returning to the vehicle). If there's no notice, it's not a legal ticket. Also, I suspect that this ticket may not even be legal in the first place. What statute gives cops the authority to issue tickets on private property?
You can absolutely get tickets on private property. It is, for example, illegal to park on the grass in many places as shown above. In some states, it is illegal to park an unregistered car, even if its on private property. Often, statues give police jurisdiction over publicly accessible areas like parking lots. This is how things like handicapped spots can be enforced on a privately owned mall parking lot. Police can usually ticket for drunk driving and things like that too.

The same laws don't necessarily apply, but assuming that you can't get a "real" ticket on private property is definitely false.
 

STS-134

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You can absolutely get tickets on private property. It is, for example, illegal to park on the grass in many places as shown above. In some states, it is illegal to park an unregistered car, even if its on private property. Often, statues give police jurisdiction over publicly accessible areas like parking lots. This is how things like handicapped spots can be enforced on a privately owned mall parking lot. Police can usually ticket for drunk driving and things like that too.

The same laws don't necessarily apply, but assuming that you can't get a "real" ticket on private property is definitely false.
In California, police cannot ticket on private property. However, the property owner can have vehicles towed if there are signs at every entrance warning about this. If it's a single family home, then no signs are necessary, and the owner or tenant can have a vehicle towed for any reason.

The point is, NEVER just pay a ticket. Make sure that they followed the law to the letter in issuing the ticket, including in following up with a courtesy notice or whatever else is required. If they didn't, then don't pay the ticket. Generally, a local ordinance can give police authority to issue tickets BUT there must be a corresponding state law that gives local governments the authority to do this, etc. Everything must be traceable to something passed by the state legislature.
 
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Bocephus

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Why? Generally they have to send a courtesy notice to the owner of the vehicle (in case the ticket was removed prior to the owner returning to the vehicle). If there's no notice, it's not a legal ticket. Also, I suspect that this ticket may not even be legal in the first place. What statute gives cops the authority to issue tickets on private property?
It can vary from state but they can issue citations on private property. Plus most parking citations are $30 so is it really worth it?
 

STS-134

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It can vary from state but they can issue citations on private property. Plus most parking citations are $30 so is it really worth it?
Don't give the mafia even 1¢ unless ordered to by a Judge!! This type of attitude drives me crazy. What in the hell do you think happens when 5000 people say eh, it's not worth fighting this? Right, the department gets $150k...and is incentivized to do it again to more victims.

I've gotten 5 parking tickets so far. I've paid a total of 0 of them. 100% of them got tossed because someone screwed something up during the process of issuing said tickets.
 
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rj0

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Don't give the mafia even 1¢ unless ordered to by a Judge!! This type of attitude drives me crazy. What in the hell do you think happens when 5000 people say eh, it's not worth fighting this? Right, the department gets $150k...and is incentivized to do it again to more victims.

I've gotten 5 parking tickets so far. I've paid a total of 0 of them. 100% of them got tossed because someone screwed something up during the process of issuing said tickets.
ticket is $41 and i'll be fighting it
 

thefrog1394

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In California, police cannot ticket on private property. However, the property owner can have vehicles towed if there are signs at every entrance warning about this. If it's a single family home, then no signs are necessary, and the owner or tenant can have a vehicle towed for any reason.

The point is, NEVER just pay a ticket. Make sure that they followed the law to the letter in issuing the ticket, including in following up with a courtesy notice or whatever else is required. If they didn't, then don't pay the ticket. Generally, a local ordinance can give police authority to issue tickets BUT there must be a corresponding state law that gives local governments the authority to do this, etc. Everything must be traceable to something passed by the state legislature.

That is not true. In California, actual police can ticket for handicapped violations on private property for instance. Police can also ticket/tow for expired registration even on private property.

You may be thinking of a sign along the lines of "parking for X business only", which the police typically can't ticket for (although I'm sure this varies by state), but the owner can tow. But it's definitely not universally true that police in California can't ticket on private property.
 
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STS-134

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That is not true. In California, actual police can ticket for handicapped violations on private property for instance. Police can also ticket/tow for expired registration even on private property.

You may be thinking of a sign along the lines of "parking for X business only", which the police typically can't ticket for (although I'm sure this varies by state), but the owner can tow. But it's definitely not universally true that police in California can't ticket on private property.
Wrong. A police officer may not ticket you for parking in a certain manner in an "offstreet parking facility". However, he or she may remove/tow your vehicle from the property (and the owner of the property may also call for a tow), provided that you've been notified that you're in violation of parking rules and more than a certain number of hours has passed OR the vehicle has been notified more than a certain number of times. BTW, "offstreet parking facility" only refers to a facility where parking is free AND it's open to the public.

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CVC 22651
(o) (1) If a vehicle is found or operated upon a highway, public land, or an offstreet parking facility under any of the following circumstances:
(A) With a registration expiration date in excess of six months before the date it is found or operated on the highway, public lands, or the offstreet parking facility.
(B) Displaying in, or upon, the vehicle, a registration card, identification card, temporary receipt, license plate, special plate, registration sticker, device issued pursuant to Section 4853, or permit that was not issued for that vehicle, or is not otherwise lawfully used on that vehicle under this code.
(C) Displaying in, or upon, the vehicle, an altered, forged, counterfeit, or falsified registration card, identification card, temporary receipt, license plate, special plate, registration sticker, device issued pursuant to Section 4853, or permit.
(D) (i) The vehicle is operating using autonomous technology, without the registered owner or manufacturer of the vehicle having first applied for, and obtained, a valid permit that is required to operate the vehicle on public roads pursuant to Section 38750, and Article 3.7 (commencing with Section 227.00) and Article 3.8 (commencing with Section 228.00) of Title 13 of the California Code of Regulations.
(ii) The vehicle is operating using autonomous technology after the registered owner or person in control of the vehicle received notice that the vehicle’s permit required for the operation of the vehicle pursuant to Section 38750, and Article 3.7 (commencing with Section 227.00) and Article 3.8 (commencing with Section 228.00) of Title 13 of the California Code of Regulations is suspended, terminated, or revoked.
(iii) For purposes of this subdivision, the terms “autonomous technology” and “autonomous vehicle” have the same meanings as in Section 38750.
(iv) This subparagraph does not provide the authority for a peace officer to stop an autonomous vehicle solely for the purpose of determining whether the vehicle is operating using autonomous technology without a valid permit required to operate the autonomous vehicle on public roads pursuant to Section 38750, and Article 3.7 (commencing with Section 227.00) and Article 3.8 (commencing with Section 228.00) of Title 13 of the California Code of Regulations.
(2) If a vehicle described in paragraph (1) is occupied, only a peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the Penal Code, may remove the vehicle.
(3) For the purposes of this subdivision, the vehicle shall be released under any of the following circumstances:
(A) If the vehicle has been removed pursuant to subparagraph (A), (B), or (C) of paragraph (1), to the registered owner of, or person in control of, the vehicle only after the owner or person furnishes the storing law enforcement agency with proof of current registration and a valid driver’s license to operate the vehicle.
(B) If the vehicle has been removed pursuant to subparagraph (D) of paragraph (1), to the registered owner of, or person in control of, the autonomous vehicle, after the registered owner or person furnishes the storing law enforcement agency with proof of current registration and a valid driver’s license, if required to operate the autonomous vehicle, and either of the following:
(i) Proof of a valid permit required to operate the autonomous vehicle using autonomous technology on public roads pursuant to Section 38750, and Article 3.7 (commencing with Section 227.00) and Article 3.8 (commencing with Section 228.00) of Title 13 of the California Code of Regulations.
(ii) A declaration or sworn statement to the Department of Motor Vehicles that states that the autonomous vehicle will not be operated using autonomous technology upon public roads without first obtaining a valid permit to operate the vehicle pursuant to Section 38750, and Article 3.7 (commencing with Section 227.00) and Article 3.8 (commencing with Section 228.00) of Title 13 of the California Code of Regulations.
(C) To the legal owner or the legal owner’s agency, without payment of any fees, fines, or penalties for parking tickets or registration and without proof of current registration, if the vehicle will only be transported pursuant to the exemption specified in Section 4022 and if the legal owner does all of the following:
(i) Pays the cost of towing and storing the vehicle.
(ii) Completes an affidavit in a form acceptable to the impounding law enforcement agency stating that the vehicle was not in possession of the legal owner at the time of occurrence of an offense relating to standing or parking. A vehicle released to a legal owner under this subdivision is a repossessed vehicle for purposes of disposition or sale. The impounding agency has a lien on any surplus that remains upon sale of the vehicle to which the registered owner is or may be entitled, as security for the full amount of parking penalties for any notices of parking violations issued for the vehicle and for all local administrative charges imposed pursuant to Section 22850.5. Upon receipt of any surplus, the legal owner shall promptly remit to, and deposit with, the agency responsible for processing notices of parking violations from that surplus, the full amount of the parking penalties for all notices of parking violations issued for the vehicle and for all local administrative charges imposed pursuant to Section 22850.5.
(4) The impounding agency that has a lien on the surplus that remains upon the sale of a vehicle to which a registered owner is entitled has a deficiency claim against the registered owner for the full amount of parking penalties for any notices of parking violations issued for the vehicle and for all local administrative charges imposed pursuant to Section 22850.5, less the amount received from the sale of the vehicle.
(5) As used in this subdivision, “offstreet parking facility” means an offstreet facility held open for use by the public for parking vehicles and includes a publicly owned facility for offstreet parking, and a privately owned facility for offstreet parking if a fee is not charged for the privilege to park and it is held open for the common public use of retail customers.

CVC 22651.3
(a) Any peace officer, as that term is defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the Penal Code, or any regularly employed and salaried employee, who is engaged in directing traffic or enforcing parking laws and regulations, of a city, county, or jurisdiction of a state agency in which any vehicle, other than a rented vehicle, is located may remove the vehicle from an offstreet public parking facility located within the territorial limits in which the officer or employee may act when the vehicle is known to have been issued five or more notices of parking violation over a period of five or more days, to which the owner or person in control of the vehicle has not responded or when any vehicle is illegally parked so as to prevent the movement of a legally parked vehicle.

A notice of parking violation issued to a vehicle which is registered in a foreign jurisdiction or is without current California registration and is known to have been issued five or more notices of parking violation over a period of five or more days shall be accompanied by a warning that repeated violations may result in the impounding of the vehicle.
(b) The vehicle may be impounded until the owner or person in control of the vehicle furnishes to the impounding law enforcement agency evidence of his or her identity and an address within this state at which he or she can be located and furnishes satisfactory evidence that bail has been deposited for all notices of parking violation issued for the vehicle. In lieu of requiring satisfactory evidence that the bail has been deposited, the impounding law enforcement agency may, in its discretion, issue a notice to appear for the offenses charged, as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 40500) of Chapter 2 of Division 17. In lieu of either furnishing satisfactory evidence that the bail has been deposited or accepting the notice to appear, the owner or person in control of the vehicle may demand to be taken without unnecessary delay before a magistrate within the county in which the offenses charged are alleged to have been committed and who has jurisdiction of the offenses and is nearest or most accessible with reference to the place where the vehicle is impounded.
(c) Evidence of current registration shall be produced after a vehicle has been impounded. At the discretion of the impounding law enforcement agency, a notice to appear for violation of subdivision (a) of Section 4000 may be issued to the owner or person in control of the vehicle, if the two days immediately following the day of impoundment are weekend days or holidays.

CVC 22652
(a) A peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the Penal Code, or any regularly employed and salaried employee engaged in directing traffic or enforcing parking laws and regulations of a city, county, or jurisdiction of a state agency may remove any vehicle from a stall or space designated for physically disabled persons pursuant to Section 22511.7 or 22511.8, located within the jurisdictional limits in which the officer or employee is authorized to act, if the vehicle is parked in violation of Section 22507.8 and if the police or sheriff’s department or the Department of the California Highway Patrol is notified.
(b) In a privately or publicly owned or operated offstreet parking facility, this section applies only to those stalls and spaces if the posting requirements under subdivisions (a) and (d) of Section 22511.8 have been complied with and if the stalls or spaces are clearly signed or marked.

CVC 22652.5
The owner or person in lawful possession of an offstreet parking facility, or any local authority owning or operating an offstreet parking facility, who causes a vehicle to be removed from the parking facility pursuant to Section 22511.8, or any state, city, or county employee, is not civilly liable for the removal if the police or sheriff’s department in whose jurisdiction the offstreet parking facility or the stall or space is located or the Department of the California Highway Patrol has been notified prior to the removal.

CVC 22652.6
Any peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the Penal Code, or any regularly employed and salaried employee engaged in directing traffic or enforcing parking laws and regulations of a city or county, may remove any vehicle parked or standing on the streets or highways or from a stall or space of a privately or publicly owned or operated offstreet parking facility within the jurisdiction of the city or county when the vehicle is in violation of a local ordinance or resolution adopted pursuant to Section 22511.57.

In general, AFAIK traffic laws DO NOT APPLY in private parking lots, even ones open to the public where no fee is collected.

There are a few exceptions written into the CVC. For example, CVC 23103, which also specifically mentions offstreet parking facilities. So if a police officer sees you drive with willful or wanton disregard for the safety of other persons or property in a mall parking lot, then in this specific situation, he or she may ticket you, and would have you specifically write you up for violation of CVC 23103:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=23103.

Note that CVC section 40202 which governs the procedure to be followed for parking tickets, does not mention offstreet parking facilities. Nor does CVC Section 40202 contain any language that would allow a local government to pass any laws allowing police to ticket you in an offstreet parking facility. I know that entire section of the CVC inside and out. If you found a ticket on your car in a private parking lot in California, it's BS and you shouldn't pay it.
 
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thefrog1394

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Handicapped parking laws apply to offstreet parking as well: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=22507.8.
See subdivision (d) --- Subdivisions (a), (b), and (c) also apply to any privately owned and maintained offstreet parking facility.

Note I'm not saying that generally all traffic laws apply on private property. But typically there are a number of laws that DO still apply. DUI is another traffic law that can be enforced on private property: https://www.wklawdui.com/can-i-get-a-dui-on-private-property-in-california-vehicle-code-section-23152/
 

STS-134

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Handicapped parking laws apply to offstreet parking as well: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=22507.8.
See subdivision (d) --- Subdivisions (a), (b), and (c) also apply to any privately owned and maintained offstreet parking facility.

Note I'm not saying that generally all traffic laws apply on private property. But typically there are a number of laws that DO still apply. DUI is another traffic law that can be enforced on private property: https://www.wklawdui.com/can-i-get-a-dui-on-private-property-in-california-vehicle-code-section-23152/
Right. You can be towed from a handicap space on private property under certain conditions. You cannot be ticketed. The proper thing to do, if you are parked improperly on private property, i.e. in a mall parking lot, is to tow your car.
 

thefrog1394

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Right. You can be towed from a handicap space on private property under certain conditions. You cannot be ticketed. The proper thing to do, if you are parked improperly on private property, i.e. in a mall parking lot, is to tow your car.
What is your evidence for that? The 40202 does not place any limits on ticketing to public highways only. 22507.9 details creation of "meter maids" (parking enforcement), with again no limits on the location.

The section you quote on towing vehicles outlines the cases where towing a vehicle is permissible. I am not debating that private property owners can tow vehicles under certain circumstances to enforce things like "parking for unit A only" or whatever. But that does not mean that parking tickets cannot be issued on private property by police for violation of specific laws like handicapped parking.

I don't live in California and I am not a lawyer, so I am nearing the end of my knowledge/willingness to google on the subject of specific California vehicle code sections. I do know that in the vast majority of states there is basically a subset of traffic and parking laws that can still be enforced by police and city meter maids on private property. Typically things like reckless driving, DUI, and handicapped parking. Other parking violations will fall on the property owner to enforce by towing, following applicable laws. And this is where the "fake" unenforceable parking tickets come in.
And from a cursory search on Cali, I see absolutely nothing to suggest that California is any different in this regard.
 

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Many states consider public parking lots, apartment parking, whatever, as “public place of assembly”. It really is not private property per say. Which won’t get into, because it will end up in banned politic discussion.

Also any titled vehicle, licensed or not, is considered public place of assembly. The forcing of a conditional title, and revokable license turns what people think is property ownership, into a licensed right to use.

In reality, most global tainted state supreme courts have designated this for years. For example, depending on area, any vehicle that by law is forced to have a title, also if forced to be registered every year with a license plate. If not, the “vehicle” can be cited with a “ticket“ anywhere, including in private property for not having a current plate.

Also, in Marion County, they can come onto “private property“ and seize the vehicle for impound until the paperwork is caught up With all taxes paid. A license is a tax. Forced and required for items deemed taxable.

We do not own land grant private property anymore. Nor do we own outright vehicles that Are under forced title, license, and tax ”regulations”. Because this “property“ does not have to be used for its intended purpose to be taxed, regulated, licensed, or cited/impounded when parked on some lines or grass.

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