Raise your hand if you like A.S.S.

Exadata

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Talk about the most annoying thing ever ..... automatic start stop. It sucks. Never met anyone who liked it. Wears out your starter and battery faster not to mention the lag of the engine starting when you are ready to "go"! Have to hit a stupid button to disable it on most makes every time you start the car. Shows how much the auto industry bows to Uncle Sam (cafe) than consumer demand. :rolleyes: Not to mention the people that have died (carbon monoxide poisoning due to car left running in the garage) due to the keyless ignition design because old habits are hard to kill like physically turning a key and taking it with you thus reinforcing that you know the car is turned off completely.

Obliviously, I'm not raising my hand and glad I don't own a car with A.S.S.
 
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Jon at Radenso

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A.S.S is the second dumbest thing ever to be put in sports cars.

The dumbest? BMW of all freaking manufacturers defaulted a radar "following too close" warning in my M2. BMW! I have to turn it off manually every time I get in the car otherwise it's a giant red warning light in the middle of the dashboard blinking at me constantly.

Do they not realize the entire reason I bought a BMW is to follow too closely and pass without using my blinker (kidding! but....)? I would go so far as to say that most BMW owners probably think that light can't be turned off, because it's literally always on when driving the car.

It's to the point now where I have a pre-flight checklist every single time I get into the car. Get in, ignition on, disable "follow too closely" button, hold down DSC button for three seconds to completely disable. At least the car remembers to disable A.S.S.
 
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GotWake

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I hate that stupid "feature". If the starter for those cars are so much better. They should last a lifetime for me since I turn it off.
 

thebravo

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I hate that stupid "feature". If the starter for those cars are so much better. They should last a lifetime for me since I turn it off.
I have had it on multiple rentals and i loathe it. A couple of them there wasn't a way to disable it. If it's mid summer and it shuts off the air coming from the vents gets humid and stuffy until it senses the car is warming up too much then it comes back on. I did find during the summer if you set the temp super low on the AC and set the fan speed to super low that it will never reach setpoint and therefor the car won't shut off cause "it needs to run the AC "while also not being too cold.
 

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A.S.S is the second dumbest thing ever to be put in sports cars.

The dumbest? BMW of all freaking manufacturers defaulted a radar "following too close" warning in my M2. BMW! I have to turn it off manually every time I get in the car otherwise it's a giant red warning light in the middle of the dashboard blinking at me constantly.

Do they not realize the entire reason I bought a BMW is to follow too closely and pass without using my blinker (kidding! but....)? I would go so far as to say that most BMW owners probably think that light can't be turned off, because it's literally always on when driving the car.

It's to the point now where I have a pre-flight checklist every single time I get into the car. Get in, ignition on, disable "follow too closely" button, hold down DSC button for three seconds to completely disable. At least the car remembers to disable A.S.S.
In a sports car :rolleyes::(:mad: ouch. I've only experienced (unknowingly) it in rentals and was like "wtf is wrong with the engine". I think this article (below) really sheds like on the craziness of this "assistance" and will have you thinking "Do I really own my car"? with this quote from the article "Control is the functional definition of ownership. That which you don’t control, you don’t really own".


Also, feel free to LOL over the V1 ads on the site :D At least they showed up when I was viewing the page.
[/QUOTE]
 
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mikedotd

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My current car has this feature and like everyone else, I now have a "pre-flight check" to disable it every time I start the car.

But it's disingenuous to say they're bad for your car. When a manufacturer includes start/stop they've accounted for it with a starter motor that's designed for the increased duty, along with the car's battery and the engine's low friction piston skirts.

And as Jason at Engineering Explained has outlined, the feature does actually reduce fuel consumption:
 

STS-134

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I have had it on multiple rentals and i loathe it. A couple of them there wasn't a way to disable it. If it's mid summer and it shuts off the air coming from the vents gets humid and stuffy until it senses the car is warming up too much then it comes back on. I did find during the summer if you set the temp super low on the AC and set the fan speed to super low that it will never reach setpoint and therefor the car won't shut off cause "it needs to run the AC "while also not being too cold.
My current car has this feature and like everyone else, I now have a "pre-flight check" to disable it every time I start the car.

But it's disingenuous to say they're bad for your car. When a manufacturer includes start/stop they've accounted for it with a starter motor that's designed for the increased duty, along with the car's battery and the engine's low friction piston skirts.

And as Jason at Engineering Explained has outlined, the feature does actually reduce fuel consumption:
Yeah but why do this half assed approach? There are zero reasons to not at least have a hybridized powertrain nowadays. Pure ICE drive should already be a thing of the past. You shouldn't get voltage dips when the engine starts because the power should be provided by a separate source than what's turning the engine (a 12V power system that attaches to the main drive battery).

And to thebravo's AC problem, the AC shouldn't be driven by a belt that hangs off the engine, it should be driven by electricity from the main drive battery, and its operation should be independent of the engine. I never have issues running my AC at full blast with the engine off in my car, nor in the hybrid car I rented in Honolulu last July. If the main drive battery power gets too low in either car, then the engine comes on to charge it, and then shuts back off. We've had this technology that makes the compressor independent of the engine since the 2nd generation Prius. Like way back in 2004.
 

IPA

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Camaro preflight checklist:
Traction button hold 7-8s
Hide TPMS alert
Hide traction alert
Listen to the annoying chime
Crane neck to see the 180 degrees behind vehicle

Truck preflight checklist:
-

Of course these vehicles have over two decades between them. I couldn’t stand an automated system which starts and stops the engine. I would create a method to defeat it, and if all efforts failed, a different vehicle would replace it.
 

Exadata

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My current car has this feature and like everyone else, I now have a "pre-flight check" to disable it every time I start the car.

But it's disingenuous to say they're bad for your car. When a manufacturer includes start/stop they've accounted for it with a starter motor that's designed for the increased duty, along with the car's battery and the engine's low friction piston skirts.

And as Jason at Engineering Explained has outlined, the feature does actually reduce fuel consumption:
Well, if they do provide a beefed up starter and an AGM battery that's great but, would probaly be viewed by most as an unnecessary added cost to a new car
My current car has this feature and like everyone else, I now have a "pre-flight check" to disable it every time I start the car.

But it's disingenuous to say they're bad for your car. When a manufacturer includes start/stop they've accounted for it with a starter motor that's designed for the increased duty, along with the car's battery and the engine's low friction piston skirts.

And as Jason at Engineering Explained has outlined, the feature does actually reduce fuel consumption:
IDK, A non-turbo engine vs the same enigine with a turbo will have a longer life. An engine, even though designed for it, will probably not last as long as the same engine that doesn't go through the same amount of start/stop cycles. Anyway, regardless of whether it causes more wear and tear (of pretty cheap replaceable parts battery/starter that wear out no matter what) A.S.S. is just straight up annoying and since you turn it off in your per-flight I guess you agree?
 

mikedotd

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Well, if they do provide a beefed up starter and an AGM battery that's great but, would probaly be viewed by most as an unnecessary added cost to a new car


IDK, A non-turbo engine vs the same enigine with a turbo will have a longer life. An engine, even though designed for it, will probably not last as long as the same engine that doesn't go through the same amount of start/stop cycles. Anyway, regardless of whether it causes more wear and tear (of pretty cheap replaceable parts battery/starter that wear out no matter what) A.S.S. is just straight up annoying and since you turn it off in your per-flight I guess you agree?
Me personally, I do agree start/stop is annoying and that's why I turn it off everytime. I'm not totally convinced that turbo cars won't last as long as naturally aspirated cars, but I definitely think they require more maintenance.

The world as a whole has decided to reduce carbon emissions though, so... this stuff isn't going to go away. As @STS-134 brings up, hybrid electrics (and full EV's) are more efficient then pure ICE. The writing is on the wall...
 

STS-134

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IDK, A non-turbo engine vs the same enigine with a turbo will have a longer life. An engine, even though designed for it, will probably not last as long as the same engine that doesn't go through the same amount of start/stop cycles. Anyway, regardless of whether it causes more wear and tear (of pretty cheap replaceable parts battery/starter that wear out no matter what) A.S.S. is just straight up annoying and since you turn it off in your per-flight I guess you agree?
I agree that A.S.S. is straight up annoying. I disagree that number of start/stop cycles has anything to do with engine life. 299,999+ Mile Club

There are a ton of very high mileage Hybrid Synergy Drive cars and those easily do 10+ cycles per trip if not more. Again, people have to stop driving accessories only off of a belt driven by the engine. That's the whole problem. The oil pump should start before any fuel enters the engine, because in a typical pure ICE drive car, the fuel washes the oil off the cylinder walls before the pump has a chance to get the pressure up. In contrast, pretty much every hybrid car gets the oil pressure up and THEN adds fuel. Either the oil pump is fully electric, and starts prior to the engine, or it is driven by the engine, but the engine gets driven by one of the drive motors up to about 1000 RPM which starts the pump too, and fuel is NOT injected until AFTER the oil pressure is already brought up. With the wimpy starter motors in pure ICE drive cars, the starter motor doesn't drive the engine and pump long enough to get the pressure up prior to fuel being injected, because it would probably burn out the motor more quickly if you did this every time you started the car. So the solution is to stop using wimpy starter motors and pure ICE drive.
 

Saussie

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Me personally, I do agree start/stop is annoying and that's why I turn it off everytime. I'm not totally convinced that turbo cars won't last as long as naturally aspirated cars, but I definitely think they require more maintenance.

The world as a whole has decided to reduce carbon emissions though, so... this stuff isn't going to go away. As @STS-134 brings up, hybrid electrics (and full EV's) are more efficient then pure ICE. The writing is on the wall...
Depends on the car and the cost of maintenance, price of parts and the location of the part being replaced. My rule buying cars after some experience with water pump replacements is make sure the pump is on the outside of the engine. By this I mean most 4 cylinders you end up doing a timing belt at the same time, as you've gone that far in already, the time consumed makes it worth it, but you double up on maintenance, otherwise you end up doing a lengthy job twice that's a pain in the a*s.
Oh the extreme fun of attempting to get tools down a less than an inch corridor between the engine and bay is something everyone should experience the joys of, especially if you've got big hands haha! The bit that makes you smile is after reassembly, and you find it's still just slightly dripping if you've missed something. There goes your day haha!
I try not to buy a car with a belt now as well and prefer a timing chain because of this. Chains can be a pain to replace too but tend to last longer. Belts and water pumps I pay attention to the location on cars if interested in owning it. That said, I'm a tinkerer, and like it to be a bit easier in the long run if I attempt it. Some BMW engines are slid half back under the hood. I can't imagine what it's like dropping the engine to maybe change a spark plug or replace a coolant hose or something. Total company cash retaining designs I'm no fan of, but hey, if you got the cash, it's not an issue if it's someone else's problem to repair. 100% agree with stop start ignition and starter motors. Where is the starter motor as well? I'd bank it's not in a good accessible spot for the average home mechanic either, just to be awkward. Guess not all cars will be completely easy and accessible, but doing homework on the engine setup and thinking ahead, most people could probably make their vehicle maintenance life a little easier and less labour intensive, which in turn reduces cost/time. Might never get everything accessible and easy but could be a little compromise in a careful purchase for the little things that need servicing, that someone could do themselves. That said, I had a customer keen to fit some new speakers in his car himself. I showed him how easy it was but when he attempted, he couldn't use a simple crimper to attach the speaker wire spade connectors, and failed miserably. Such small skills can go a long way with a tiny bit of experience.
 
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The Pope

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The world as a whole has decided to reduce carbon emissions.......
Uuummmmmm.......... I respectfully disagree with your "world as a whole" comment ..... China for one..... India for another....... are.... shall we say.... not with the program.

I don't like A.S.S. and wish that the automotive industry would make it where we don't have to go through these "preflight checklists". Either by pulling a fuse, flipping a switch or being able to select from a menu list what we want/don't want at startup.
 

ShadowTrooper

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They make a plug in module for the Grand Cherokee that auto disables the start/ stop system every time you start it.
No more button pushing. Nice !
Now you can make use of that spare battery for direct powering more CM’s ;)
 

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I appreciate old cars more these days. Such a pleasure and not an auto electrical nightmare. Still... I wouldn't mind an all electric car though.
 

V1Jake

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As soon as I bought my BMW 3 series I did the coding to disable it. It's a disaster with a manual car and I want to make the life of my starter/timing chain a little bit longer..
 

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Man, I love....oops, wrong thread. :laugh: Sorry, I had to let the inner child out.
 

STS-134

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Uuummmmmm.......... I respectfully disagree with your "world as a whole" comment ..... China for one..... India for another....... are.... shall we say.... not with the program.
China just passed a law this month saying that all taxis and rides for hire in Zhengzhou must be fully electric. Some cities have already converted. And we still allow taxis in our largest cities to burn gas and spew pollution. Why?
 

Exadata

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Here is something interesting I just learned about related to this topic. Seems like Chrystler/FCA has come up with something creative:

Post automatically merged:
Uuummmmmm.......... I respectfully disagree with your "world as a whole" comment ..... China for one..... India for another....... are.... shall we say.... not with the program.

I don't like A.S.S. and wish that the automotive industry would make it where we don't have to go through these "preflight checklists". Either by pulling a fuse, flipping a switch or being able to select from a menu list what we want/don't want at startup.
And the whole international cargo/tanker shipping industry is definitely not on board and puts out way more emissions than all light vehicles on the planet but, you need to feel all guilty because you have an SUV or any other not not so, fuel friendly vehicle.
 
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