Announcement 2019-Forum Reports will be removed from public view

Andrew21

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All,

In a few days, the forum reports will be removed from public view. The staff will take care of these issues in private. The staff has voted and acknowledged the discussion of these reports are sometimes not deemed appropriate for public discussion.

Thank you for your understanding.
 

matthewmp

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I applaud this decision. I think sometimes more transparency hurts things overall. Let's get this forum back to what it was meant to be and not all the extra fluff that detracts/takes away from the overall sense of community.

Back on the previous administration I was against the move of making this public and am still against it, being on the outside of the forum staff. I don't think much good comes from it, as you have people who are just waiting to pick apart every little minute detail and use it to game the system or prod the community.
 
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Vortex

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Yeah it's interesting how it created its own issues with people getting upset that someone tattled on them or had an issue with something they posted. I like the idea of transparency in general, but this wound up creating another set of issues.

Additionally, back with the old administration, I also found it preferable to privately discuss issues as they arose and them decide on a course of action accordingly. It wasn't always appropriate or desirable to have all of that discussion happen in public, especially when it was something security related.

So I agree that this is a good decision to move back to reports being handled and discussed in private. We can let the mods do what mods do while we focus on our CM discussions here. :)
 

GernBlanston

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Agree. Handle it behind the scenes.
If we trust you to follow the constitution, which we do, you can do what you do.
Mods should be able to do Mod stuff in private.
 

OBeerWANKenobi

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I was never a big fan of the reports being open to public view either.

Hopefully you will still be able to see the status of your OWN reports though? That would be how it worked before the reporting became public.
 

thanks

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I will say this, that I do believe that having it public must have cut down on the frivolous reporting. Once people see that others could see the reports, they would (or should have) thought twice before reporting a post....
 

DrHow

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I disagree with this action. There will be as much Chaos in private as public. However, members will not see (and have a say) what goes on behind closed doors? Like having a impeachment process we see in Congress with the (“no”) intelligence committee behind closed doors using fake ”whistleblowers”? Is this microcosm community going to third world nation, or tea drinking nose up elite country methods?


Keeping things open is hard and messy. Giving up on that ends up in chaos. May take time, even years for this epic fail to be understood. However, RDF owners IMO are not learning from RDF own short history.

We are back to pasted smiling faces saying no one needs to see any of this openness, is too hard and offensive, snowflake rules are good, let’s keep things quiet? Well, that is what they said in Hong Kong, Soviet empire, and many web forums that crash and burn. This time, there are investors whose money is at stake. Maybe that money is fireplace money, goal of a great place to be.

I get the goal of great place. If anyone with brain larger than a T-Rex has noticed, RDF since the change has been a good place to be. Friendly, quiet, openness where back door power brokers and bullies have no say. RDT social mood was great. The over all social mood has been great here. Sure, a few messy open situations. Were handled with class. the great social mood here was undamaged.

reverse course on this direction. Fast... New Zealand social/political correctness style here got the private areas banned. Sure, couple of obvious examples that made censorship and control a easy message to promote. Instead of openness, areas were shut down. Look, I am not promoting they be opened again. However, I warned that the next step was going dark with exactly what has now been announced. Murmuring voices said I was wrong. Bingo... Next stage has happened. there will be more.
Post automatically merged:

Agree. Handle it behind the scenes.
If we trust you to follow the constitution, which we do, you can do what you do.
Mods should be able to do Mod stuff in private.
We heard the end of days with RDF 1, “follow the constitution“. Did not work. Won’t work again when openness goes dark.
Post automatically merged:

Yeah it's interesting how it created its own issues with people getting upset that someone tattled on them or had an issue with something they posted. I like the idea of transparency in general, but this wound up creating another set of issues.

Additionally, back with the old administration, I also found it preferable to privately discuss issues as they arose and them decide on a course of action accordingly. It wasn't always appropriate or desirable to have all of that discussion happen in public, especially when it was something security related.

So I agree that this is a good decision to move back to reports being handled and discussed in private. We can let the mods do what mods do while we focus on our CM discussions here. :)
The “old days” failed. RDF 1 died. Hence the major changes you were so against until close to the end. Come on....

I guess the old saying “can’t raise the Titanic“ May not be true relating to raising RDF1 back from the deep trench.
 
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RaggedEdge

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I disagree with this action. There will be as much Chaos in private as public. However, members will not see (and have a say) what goes on behind closed doors. Like having a impeachment process we see in Congress with the (“no”) intelligence committee behind closed doors using fake ”whistleblowers”. Is this microcosm community going to third world nation, or tea drinking nose up elite country methods?


Keeping things open is hard and messy. Giving up on that ends up in chaos. May take time, even years for this epic fail to be understood. However, RDF owners IMO are not learning from RDF own short history.

We are back to pasted smiling faces saying no one needs to see any of this openness, is too hard and offensive, snowflake rules are good, let’s keep things quiet. Well, that is what they said in Hong Kong, Soviet empire, and many web forums that crash and burn. This time, there are investors whose money is at stake. Maybe that money is fireplace money, goal of a great place to be.

I get the goal of great place. If anyone with brain larger than a T-Rex has noticed, RDF since the change has been a good place to be. Friendly, quiet, openness where back door power brokers and bullies have no say. RDT social mood was great. The over all social mood has been great here. Sure, a few messy open situations. Were handled with class. the great social mood here was undamaged.

reverse course on this direction. Fast... New Zealand social/political correctness style here got the private areas banned. Sure, couple of obvious examples that made censorship and control a easy message to promote. Instead of openness, areas were shut down. Look, I am not promoting they be opened again. However, I warned that the next step was going dark with exactly what has now been announced. Murmuring voices said I was wrong. Bingo... Next stage has happened. there will be more.
Post automatically merged:


We heard the end of days with RDF 1, “follow the constitution“. Did not work. Won’t work again when openness goes dark.
Post automatically merged:


The “old days” failed. RDF 1 died. Hence the major changes you were so against until close to the end. Come on....

I guess the old saying “can’t raise the Titanic“ May not be true relating to raising RDF1 back from the deep trench.
Well, if we were playing word Bingo, you'd win. Hong Kong, Soviet Union, New Zealand, Titanic...

We have @Vortex as our official observer for a reason, he's free to share any of the behind the scenes discussions regarding this or any other decision that is made. Like most things, this wasn't black and white, either way we do this causes issues, so we had a lengthy debate and felt this was the correct course of action moving forward.
 

Vortex

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We have @Vortex as our official observer for a reason, he's free to share any of the behind the scenes discussions regarding this or any other decision that is made. Like most things, this wasn't black and white, either way we do this causes issues, so we had a lengthy debate and felt this was the correct course of action moving forward.
Yeah I'm really glad we've tried both to see the pros and cons of both solutions. One of the great things is we always have an option of changing again if needed so that's not a big deal, but this does seem to work better overall.

I'm glad that the staff here is committed to doing things right, both public and privately, and continually working to ensure that we have the best experience possible for the RDF community. :)
 

OBeerWANKenobi

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I disagree with this action. There will be as much Chaos in private as public. However, members will not see (and have a say) what goes on behind closed doors. Like having a impeachment process we see in Congress with the (“no”) intelligence committee behind closed doors using fake ”whistleblowers”. Is this microcosm community going to third world nation, or tea drinking nose up elite country methods?


Keeping things open is hard and messy. Giving up on that ends up in chaos. May take time, even years for this epic fail to be understood. However, RDF owners IMO are not learning from RDF own short history.

We are back to pasted smiling faces saying no one needs to see any of this openness, is too hard and offensive, snowflake rules are good, let’s keep things quiet. Well, that is what they said in Hong Kong, Soviet empire, and many web forums that crash and burn. This time, there are investors whose money is at stake. Maybe that money is fireplace money, goal of a great place to be.

I get the goal of great place. If anyone with brain larger than a T-Rex has noticed, RDF since the change has been a good place to be. Friendly, quiet, openness where back door power brokers and bullies have no say. RDT social mood was great. The over all social mood has been great here. Sure, a few messy open situations. Were handled with class. the great social mood here was undamaged.

reverse course on this direction. Fast... New Zealand social/political correctness style here got the private areas banned. Sure, couple of obvious examples that made censorship and control a easy message to promote. Instead of openness, areas were shut down. Look, I am not promoting they be opened again. However, I warned that the next step was going dark with exactly what has now been announced. Murmuring voices said I was wrong. Bingo... Next stage has happened. there will be more.
Post automatically merged:


We heard the end of days with RDF 1, “follow the constitution“. Did not work. Won’t work again when openness goes dark.
Post automatically merged:


The “old days” failed. RDF 1 died. Hence the major changes you were so against until close to the end. Come on....

I guess the old saying “can’t raise the Titanic“ May not be true relating to raising RDF1 back from the deep trench.
So those that disagree with you are relegated to the likes of smiling "yes men" and snowflakes? I guess it's impossible that anyone could disagree for other reasons? I feel like your post is a personal insult to everyone here that has an opinion contrary to yours. You oversimplify and portray all of us as kowtowing to the powers that be.

Just because your personal attacks are veiled doesn't make them any more palatable.
 

BlueV1

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One thing to consider is that RDF pre-AAKP didn't "fail" because of the reports being visible. There were other reasons entirely.
 

Transporter

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@DrHow

I agree with much of what you said, but there is one thing that has drastically changed and in my opinion makes a huge difference: There isn't a King/Overlord/Dictator/Single Owner/All Mighty/KeyMaster of Gozer (whatever term one needs to use for absolute Forum Master) running the Forum with Mods following orders or demoted if they don't when somebody is just having a bad day or been up for 3 days straight. There is a Board now and the Board and the Mods "Voted" on how to proceed. These is a good thing as it brings more voices into it, there is a consensus reached, and a policy instituted. Moreover, if it doesn't work or feedback shows it needs tweaked, that can happen where as before it could not!

Transparency can be a good thing but not in all respects. Would it have done any good for America and Germany to know exactly where each nation was in regards to having the first operational Atomic Device? Does one think that either Germany or Japan would have just surrendered knowing ahead of time that America would get there first and have the will to use it even though being America (everybody knows Germany and Japan if they had it would not hesitate to have used it). So Transparency can be a double edged sword.

I would like to see some simple policies for conflict resolution that Forum members know about up front and Mods could easily use in an attempt to keep thing from getting out of hand in the first place. Most Members use PM, how about contacting another Member before "tattling" on another Member. After all this is only Text, there is no voice inflection, no facial expressions, no body language IE nothing to determine somebody is just teasing you or attempting to pull your chain so it is easy for a misunderstanding to occur even with Members that have been on the Forum for years and know each others "Styles" very well. I'm an Engineer so my Posts tend to be dry some say too straight forward. My only posts that are usually absolutely easily recognized are short one or two line posts that are an attempt at Humor to lighten the mode of a Thread what is so far off track or starting to get out of line so that it can get back on topic. And of course there are age differences so remarks can be taken the wrong way IE making a reference to a 60's song or 70's movie that somebody born in 1996 has no idea about what is being said and takes it the wrong way. Just as I had to look up certain three letters left at the end of posts because I was never a big text user as I have always had unlimited voice minutes working for a Telecommunications Company plus when I did text, I had a huge translate abbreviation library so I always sent the three words as it auto replaced it for me.

My last comment is about reading too much into a Post. If I even remotely think things are getting too close to the edge, I slowly reread the Post as well as other Posts having to do with it in the thread. I have found several times that I missed a key word or let myself read something into that wasn't there for after all it is not a fluid conversation just between two individuals or I didn't see missing a post or forgot a post that has context that I needed to have so the current Post wasn't even remotely off base.
.
 

KASHER1979

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Let’s ban Dr. How for exposing all 10 of our staff member dictators that unanimously dictated this action. :laugh:

Just joking Dr. How but it is true the entire staff voted unanimously on this. As someone else said we are always open to change but there were issues with everyone seeing all of the reports.

I appreciate your feedback though @DrHow as always and I promise this staff has what is best for the forum as our goal and motivation for what we decide. If it turns out having this all public seems like the best option later we will vote again. As always keep us informed of any issues etc.
 
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DrHow

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@Transporter and @KASHER1979, as always I too appreciate the feedback.

my paraphrase quote below is stated not because I believe we are “there yet”. It is a caution of what can and does happen. I believe we are on top of slippery slop, just headed down. I hope that is wrong, but want to call out earnest heads up:

“I question if it is better to be governed by a king, or be ruled by 466 little kings. There is no liberty with each” -The Patriot

point is, tyranny comes from many methods. We are not making atomic bombs, and RDF does not have a standing army. However, we lose the open framework, leave things up to a private communicating board (with all its human frailties), Limited accountability (except last ditch effort efforts like starting, say, RDT), the slope is slippery indeed.
 

DrHow

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So those that disagree with you are relegated to the likes of smiling "yes men" and snowflakes? I guess it's impossible that anyone could disagree for other reasons? I feel like your post is a personal insult to everyone here that has an opinion contrary to yours. You oversimplify and portray all of us as kowtowing to the powers that be.

Just because your personal attacks are veiled doesn't make them any more palatable.
Blah blah blah. Glad you are not in power over others and have army to enforce your reign.

geez.
 

RadarScout

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I think all the comments about tyranny, armies, chaos, kings and power are really overdoing it. This is a forum...basically a giant chat room. No one is building an army. I wish we would stay away from terminology that's designed to create divisions, whether intentional or not.
 
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Bossdad71

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I think all the comments about tyranny, armies, chaos, kings and power are really overdoing it. This is a forum...basically a giant chat room. No one is building an army. I wish we would stay away from terminology that's designed to create divisions, whether intentional or not.
I love u (;
 

KASHER1979

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I think all the comments about tyranny, armies, chaos, kings and power are really overdoing it. This is a forum...basically a giant chat room. No one is building an army. I wish we would stay away from terminology that's designed to create divisions, whether intentional or not.
Totally agree. This is supposed to be a fun hobby/pastime. It isn't something to antipicate doomsday about.
 

Patton250

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I’m glad you’re getting rid of it. If people are going to complain every time they get their feelings hurt I’d rather it be in private and not transparent. Unless of course you’re willing to make the person filing the report be know as well. I’m still sorry the mods have to deal with this drivel though.
 

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