Highway detectors intercepting Bluetooth signals

synistyr

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Well.. that's disturbing, but not surprising.


They're now tracking the Bluetooth from beaming your from vehicle/devices to track your traffic and speed. I'm sure enforcement/fines to follow.
 

CA90

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They are scanning Bluetooth MAC addresses, which aren't linked to individuals, but even if they were they can be spoofed. If they wanted to do this on the gamble that people would just pay and drop the ticket if anyone challenged it, then it might work for a little while. If it couldn't be spoofed it would make a universal "toll tag" a lot easier.

The privacy issue mentioned at the end is more about tracking a mostly-unique identifier. In some ways you can compare it to browser fingerprinting. You have an identifier, not guaranteed to be unique, that by itself cannot identify who the individual is, but allows tracking. Combined with additional data sources, these identifiers could reveal a lot. Unlike a license plate scan, this data can be captured where a car can't go and by more people/devices, opening up another data source of location info.

1. MAC address alone says it is highly probable a device traveled at X speed.
2. Name attached to that MAC only says a device once linked to you traveled at that speed.
3. GPS logs for the device increases the chances the device was really in that location.
4. GPS data for an account on the phone increases the chances it was actually your device, but still does not guarantee it was you.

So on and so on.
 

quandary

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Keep in mind that those Bluetooth MAC addresses in vehicles cannot be changed as easily as our phones. It's kinda smart. The technology war continues...
-- Double Post Merged: --
I did a little digging. The technology has been around for many years. It looks like a box that is pole mounted with a power supply with a solar panel on top. (I'm sure they can be wired with a direct power feed so you can't rely on the solar panel.) They were originally tested in Ohio to compare against speed monitoring through toll tags.

You might consider turning off all Bluetooth in your vehicle and phones for now if you are concerned about it. Rotating your mac address between the speed detection boxes is probably not available yet. (Turning your car into a Faraday box is probably not practical.)
 
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CA90

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Keep in mind that those Bluetooth MAC addresses in vehicles cannot be changed as easily as our phones. It's kinda smart. The technology war continues...
That is true and I agree it's an interesting way to track traffic.

It's really more that it can be spoofed rather than how hard it is to change all devices. The reason being that since a MAC can't be guaranteed to be unique, and isn't extremely difficult to spoof, it's extremely easy to contaminate the data enough that they can't trust it to issue tickets. I drive by your car, spoof your headunit MAC, and now the system sees the same MAC 3+ times and it doesn't know which ones are real. This would take users to really pull off, but just the possibility would justify not spending the money to issue tickets with such a system.

In a traffic monitoring system you can discard the 1% or even possibly 10% of anomalies. Enforcing the law you can't really do that and still trust the system
 

DC Fluid

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Prince George Citizen: Highway detectors intercepting Bluetooth signals.

Only one small step away from being able to write you a ticket with average speed tracking. We have everything they need already transmitting!
 

DC Fluid

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I can assure you all that this will soon be the low cost replacement for speed cameras.
Speed average over distance, monitored by signals from your own devices and OEM vehicle systems, picked up by sensors and then camera goes click at the second sensor.
Can be set up anywhere, just measure distances between sensors.
Very easy to identify vehicle by signal characteristics.
Even in non discovery modes.
BC government has already been surveying residents on average speed enforcement and claims public support for it.
I bet this already operating system is being considered.
 

Delaney

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FYI

Well.. that's disturbing, but not surprising.


They're now tracking the Bluetooth from beaming your from vehicle/devices to track your traffic and speed. I'm sure enforcement/fines to follow.
 

sdrawkcaB

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Wow. This is definitely something we'll want to follow. If it gets implemented, you'd want to disable bluetooth on your vehicle and mobile phone while commuting, opting to use a hardwire USB adapter for music and audio-out instead.
 

InsipidMonkey

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DC Fluid

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They will do this.
The current cost is only 2 1/2% of a license plate recognition system for traditional average speed enforcement.
Just wait....
 

DrHow

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How do we think we get all the traffic warnings and estimated time in slow areas? GPS meta data and triangulation of cell phones as they move. Also tracks speed. By individual device. Not too hard to reverse back to the owner for up the the second speed tracking and ticketing.

Of course, then there is Stingray and other devices like that. Which I have messed with those using these devices in our county.

Extended RFID in plates and toll devices. All kinds of current methods to track each of us if they thought they had the legal authority to issue fines.

Every WAZE user on RDF are volunteering all the meta data of their entire driving habits and speed to Google. Let alone the open mics from the apps listening in to what you say.

“You are a slave Neo”
 
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Eloi

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Time to re-think the word privacy , glad Rdf users are sharing their findings.
Georges Orwell was just forecasting the tip of the iceberg.
 

CA90

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I discussed this in the other thread, but I didn't cover the photo case because I'm not sure how well they could accomplish that with bluetooth.

For one, the privacy implications of bluetooth+cameras are larger than photographing a license plate/person and that's already been an issue.

Regarding using a camera on the 2nd sensor, I'm not intimately familiar with bluetooth signals and what can be done with focusing them. Range could be changed with power and directional antennas could do something, but picking out a MAC from 4 lanes of speeding traffic seems not so reliable. It might be focused, but will other bluetooth signals bleed into the lane? I would imagine so and then you don't know what lane it is in. Maybe it can be done by using signal strength in each lane to locate it, but you also have various factors that would influence the signal strength like maybe something on the passenger side limits range that direction, but on the drivers side it's full blast.

While a phone may need to be rooted/jailbroken to spoof, many other devices do not. It is not difficult to create a device that would sit there and spoof addresses. Randomization of MACs reduces long term tracking, but it can still be known that over a distance it is the same vehicle unless it randomizes between the sensors.

There are ways the data could be polluted so it would be harder to trust and it would just be another CM we have to have. I would hope someone that would be thinking about all this would say "hey guys, how about we don't rely on something that can be spoofed easily"

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I feel like it is unlikely and not such a good idea.
 

nighthawk

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I think they have devised ways of tracking us beyond our wildest imagination. The bigger problem with all they news enforcement/tracking tactics is the general publics accepted use of them.
 

Got Jeep

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I'm surprised that they are able to capture BT reliably as you zoom by.
I can barely keep my BT headphones connected at 10' !
I currently have BT off on my phone and my car has no sources either.
If it did, I would consider a tin foil hat for it. :buddy:
 

Vancity23

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This was surprising and disturbing to read. A major invasion of privacy. There is a local watch group here and I might send them the link...

My exhaust flaps are activated by BT and the signal pulses while driving so I can open or close them. Guessing there are other BT devices people use in different vehicles that they could not differentiate between...
 
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DeerHunter

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As CA90 noted, how do they link your BT MAC address to you, personally?
 

DC Fluid

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As CA90 noted, how do they link your BT MAC address to you, personally?
They don't have to.
Just like photo radar all they need is to ID a vehicle (this case tracking a BT signal) and take a picture. Owner of vehicle is mailed the ticket.
The only difference here is that it would be a cheaper system than current speed cams.
And you may miss vehicles with no active BT aboard.
 

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