5 tickets in one pull over

AJJ

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What State is this? County and City if you feel up to it?

I am of the opinion that you should only have two tickets (but I'm not a lawyer). How young was this LEO? If one doesn't stop hence running a red light, then it isn't possible to do any of those other things other then failing to stop/running a red light which are the same thing.
Maryland. Pg county.
He looked to be under 30.
-- Double Post Merged: --
Holy crap, what a bunch of BS. Violations 1, 3, and 4 are basically the same thing. It's like if you're doing 20+ over the PSL (in VA) and the cop gives you a ticket for reckless driving, speeding, and failure to obey a highway sign. Likewise, "driving vehicle in excess of reasonable and prudent speed on highway", does he have any proof of that (radar/lidar)? Sounds like a very subjective claim, especially without any evidence to prove that you were going at said speed. A lawyer is highly recommended for this one.

Also, I believe in MD you can request the officer's dashcam/bodycam footage. I would definitely look into that although probably best to consult with a lawyer first. However, we are talking about PG so I wouldn't be surprised if the footage gets "lost". It's not exactly a PD that's well known for honesty and integrity:rolleyes:.
You have any good lawyers in pg county?
 
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asleeper

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Maryland. Pg county.
He looked to be under 30.
-- Double Post Merged: --


You have any good lawyers in pg county?
While I know a good one for the Northern VA, unfortunately I don't know of any for PG/MD.
 

DocTJ

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Lawyer for sure.
Maybe your name reminded him of someone who stole his wife. Who knows?
 

poolmon

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You are probably going to be receiving lawyer solicitations in the mail since many lawyers track the citations issued as a way to solicit business.

There is a MD Drivers Alliance at the link below. They deal mainly with speed camera issues, but perhaps you can use their Contact Us link to see if they can be of any assistance.

 

BlueV1

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However, we are talking about PG so I wouldn't be surprised if the footage gets "lost"
If it's "lost" they can't use it either. :)
 

Delaney

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I looked up the violation codes so I could try and get this straight in my head. You got a speeding ticket, a disobey traffic control device ticket, and a stop sign ticket. While ugly in itself, that seems fairly straight forward. The other two tickets are nuts. To me they should be included as part of the traffic control device violation and that would be that. But, it looks like the way Maryland has written its Transportation Code, going through a red light is automatically two violations (21-201(a) and 21-202(h)(1)) and if you are making a turn under certain circumstances at the same time (21-202(i)(2)) up to three violations, if the cops want to go that way with you. :crazy::crazy::crazy:

This cop had it out for you or he was trying to help get his ticket count up. Either way get a lawyer for sure.

21-801 (a) Reasonable and prudent speed required. -- A person may not drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed that, with regard to the actual and potential dangers existing, is more than that which is reasonable and prudent under the conditions.

21-201 (a) Obedience required. -- (1) Subject to the exceptions granted in this title to the driver of an emergency vehicle, the driver of any vehicle, unless otherwise directed by a police officer, shall obey the instructions of any traffic control device applicable to the vehicle and placed in accordance with the Maryland Vehicle Law.

21-707 (a) Stop signs. -- Unless otherwise directed by a police officer or traffic control signal, the driver of a vehicle approaching a stop sign at an intersection shall stop at the near side of the intersection at a clearly marked stop line.

21-202 (h) Steady red indication -- In general. – (1) Vehicular traffic facing a steady circular red signal alone: (i) Shall stop at the near side of the intersection: 1. At a clearly marked stop line; 2. If there is no clearly marked stop line, before entering any crosswalk; or 3. If there is no crosswalk, before entering the intersection; and (ii) Except as provided in subsections (i), (j), and (k) of this section, shall remain stopped until a signal to proceed is shown.

21-202 (i) Steady red indication -- Entering intersection for right turn or for left turn from one-way street onto one-way street. -- Unless a sign prohibiting a turn is in place, vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal, after stopping as required by subsection (h) of this section, cautiously may enter the intersection and make: (2) A left turn from a one-way street onto a one-way street.

2018 Maryland Transportation Code
 

SWB

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Looks like he was stacking tickets. Judges usually don't like that when it is done. He doesn't even know how fast you were driving. Unless you told him.
 

doubledge

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I've had reasonable luck going to court in MD for nothing more than to show up to plead guilty, be remorseful and note my clean driving record. For this I would not hesitate to use a lawyer, particularly due to the number and type of tickets. Unless you have a bad record already I would believe that you would get these knocked down at the very least.
 
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Got Jeep

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Excessive.
Something stinks about this.
Lawyer up for sure.
 
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AJJ

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Looks like he was stacking tickets. Judges usually don't like that when it is done. He doesn't even know how fast you were driving. Unless you told him.
The cop told me I was doing 80 and ran a red light. I said ok and handed him my license and registration.
 

CarefulDriver

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Sorry to hear that. Did you use any RD or LJ? It sounds like he was tailing you so one of these things could have given you advanced warning.
 

AJJ

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Sorry to hear that. Did you use any RD or LJ? It sounds like he was tailing you so one of these things could have given you advanced warning.
My r7 and alp did not go off. On the ticket there no speed listed nor did he check the box on how he got my speed.
 

STS-134

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My r7 and alp did not go off. On the ticket there no speed listed nor did he check the box on how he got my speed.
Well that sounds like grounds to get at least one of those tickets tossed. No method at all? That's even worse than forgetting to write the serial number of the gun he used.
 

Choose Life

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Get a lawyer from same county only for courthouse
Then call all the lawyers and see who talks about having most of those tossed
 

Delaney

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My r7 and alp did not go off. On the ticket there no speed listed nor did he check the box on how he got my speed.

Okay, that's interesting and it led me to dig a little more in the MD Transportation Code. I assumed 21-801(a) Reasonable and prudent speed required was a speeding ticket in the conventional sense of XX MPH in a XX MPH zone. It's not.

Prudent.jpeg



It turns out in MD speeding tickets fall under section 21-801.1. Below is an example of a MD speeding violation I found that someone else posted online:

ticket4.jpeg



So I suspect 21-801(a) -- "A person may not drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed that, with regard to the actual and potential dangers existing, is more than that which is reasonable and prudent under the conditions." is a subjective offence based on the LEO's opinion of what was "reasonable and prudent" at the time. Anyhow, lots of reasons to talk to a lawyer on this one.
 

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DC Fluid

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Okay, that's interesting and it led me to dig a little more in the MD Transportation Code. I assumed 21-801(a) Reasonable and prudent speed required was a speeding ticket in the conventional sense of XX MPH in a XX MPH zone. It's not.

View attachment 130417


It turns out in MD speeding tickets fall under section 21-801.1. Below is an example of a MD speeding violation I found that someone else posted online:

View attachment 130416


So I suspect 21-801(a) -- "A person may not drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed that, with regard to the actual and potential dangers existing, is more than that which is reasonable and prudent under the conditions." is a subjective offence based on the LEO's opinion of what was "reasonable and prudent" at the time. Anyhow, lots of reasons to talk to a lawyer on this one.
Good find.
I would theorize based on the whole series and events leading to the 5 tickets that the whole thing is a case dependant on the officers observation at the time, and no actual speed recording was able to be recorded.
Some times there just isn't enough time to react to someone surprising you.
I think that's why no charge for speeding against PSL. No speed clocked.
 

CarefulDriver

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My r7 and alp did not go off. On the ticket there no speed listed nor did he check the box on how he got my speed.
Sounds like illegal ticket. He has no evidence at all.
 

DC Fluid

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Officers visual observations of running lights and signs, bad driving is evidence.
What would stick out of these 5 tickets who knows.
Now any video will complicate a defense of no evidence.
If no radar or laser then speed offense comes into question, but a video may be enough to convict, but at a lesser charge.
It keeps repeating, lawyer up.
 

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