Pay the piper

DC Fluid

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I have trouble with the PSL artificially low in the states, especially the western ones I visit.
You guys blow our maple leaves right off my doors with the PSL I see.
Consistently 20% or faster for similar roads. Many times 40 to 50% faster for secondary and boulevards.
Mind you less of a difference when in Alberta, but they think of themselves as Texas North....
;)
 

GotWake

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:rofl: This reminds me the first time in court as a youngon. The judge was kicking people out for the clothing they were wearing.

C7E65201-D330-4A54-87F7-2B825DD12B47.jpeg
 

samq45

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That's illegal, and that's why you always ask for the engineering and traffic survey data that justifies the speed limit. The speed limit MUST be set at the 85th percentile speed, and if it is not, you can get the ticket tossed on those grounds alone. This works on most local roads which are covered by basic speed law (i.e. town speed traps). Sadly, it does NOT work under PSL set by maximum speed law (55 mph on undivided two lane roads, 65 mph on divided highways, 70 mph on rural divided highways). But anything under the statutory maxima is basic speed and must both be justified by an engineering and traffic survey AND is legal to exceed, even if justified, if the defendant can prove it was safe to exceed the PSL (have dashcam video because burden of proof is on the defendant and is based on traffic conditions at the time the ticket was issued).
I was referring to mostly highways and illegal would depend on the laws in your state - 55 in NY everywhere, unless otherwise posted.

May be illegal but practically speaking most people given a ticket are usually faster than the 85% anyway, so if you fight in court and your ticket is still 1 mph or more over the study, then not much you can use the study for. Something to think about, but I have never seen a court case here in NY where that was used successfully, usually there are easier ways.
 

Transporter

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BC is "different".
Courts, your DL, highway improvements, RLCs and some policing in funded and instructed by ICBC. (government monopoly insurance)
Judge will fix your ticket for you right there, name wrong, address, license number, no problem, carry on sir and present your defense. It's even law a mistake does not dismiss a ticket.
Cops, mostly rookies, will get dressed down by the judge but rarely do they throw out a ticket for minor procedural gaffs.
Present a good case with facts and logic with evedence and you have a chance to reduce the fine or win outright. But if cop has his evedence and his oath you lose 8 out of 10.
You get no choice in court date, it is assigned to you. It is arranged so officer can do several of his on a day he is scheduled for court. It easily can be 6 months or a year for that date. You can request reschedule only once.
No such thing as proving safe to be a bit over. The PSL is the law. 1 kph over is breaking the law. Maybe you could talk down the fine amount but the ticket will stand.
All that said 1 won 5 out of 6, but long time since I had to be there.

As stated earlier, 3 to 5 years of increased Insurance premiums is the reason to hire an attorney and fight the ticket to get a dismissal or at a minimum a reduction so it doesn’t increase one’s insurance rates. Plus points add up and that can mean suspension of ones DL if one has a two year period of bad luck.

Sounds like Canada is lawless if the Officer doesn’t have to follow the law and rules plus the Judges allows this to happen not kicking the ticket for errors, mistakes, or inaccuracies IE than it is a racket to make revenue via fines and penalties without regards to the Law.

At least south of the border the LEOs have to follow the rules and since they are enforcing the law if they don’t do it correctly then the civilians win. We have the right to question our accuser so if the Officer doesn’t show up it is an automatic dismissal.
 

DC Fluid

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In Canada I believe the courts and police follow the law and procedures more so than the US.
That's why we come across as soft on criminals and have much lower conviction rates.
But silly little technicality on driving tickets? Judge will fix that for you and move on.
We face insurance premiums too.
I just wonder where the line is on fees to fight vs. cost of the ticket/premium.
Reminds me of UK man spending 30,000 fighting a 100 ticket and losing.
 

nighthawk

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I have trouble with the PSL artificially low in the states, especially the western ones I visit.
You guys blow our maple leaves right off my doors with the PSL I see.
Consistently 20% or faster for similar roads. Many times 40 to 50% faster for secondary and boulevards.
Mind you less of a difference when in Alberta, but they think of themselves as Texas North....
;)
Alberta doesn't have the 120 km/hr speed limits that some provinces have ;) .

In Canada I believe the courts and police follow the law and procedures more so than the US.
That's why we come across as soft on criminals and have much lower conviction rates.
But silly little technicality on driving tickets? Judge will fix that for you and move on.
We face insurance premiums too.
I just wonder where the line is on fees to fight vs. cost of the ticket/premium.
Reminds me of UK man spending 30,000 fighting a 100 ticket and losing.
Canada law system could use some work too, I would argue some laws have tough penalties when they shouldn't have and vice versa. When the LEO can throw the book at you for not following the law to the tee, I would put that right back on them for filling the paperwork at the very minimum correctly. It is a very slippery slope, and I think at least having a lawyer offers some decency of fairness for both sides.

I in no way, shape or form know the law perfectly, those that do enforce it should know it better than I or a lawyer. If the lawyer can find holes in their enforcement, then more power to them. It might take the prevalence of writing every Tom, Richard and Harry a speeding ticket for a few km/hr over, but now the photo radar trucks are taking over that...
 

Choose Life

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Sorry man
But sunshine at the end of the sewer tunnel
It was not more than 25 over
I read through 75 pages yesterday of traffic district Iredell court
Every ticket written by a trooper but also every ticket 89 and below was just the ticket
Every ticket I saw that was 90+ had reckless driving attached to it
With a lawyer you WILL get improper equipment and zero points
Popped again you'll get 9 over 3 dmv but 0 insurance points
Sux sorry
 
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DC Fluid

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I should mention that for a long time now our tickets come as a computer printed form, like a slip from a cash register.
Our info is all auto filled by the system to reduce LEO input errors.
They only have to enter minimal info relevant to the offense pulled over for.
Most traffic cars have this. Saves time and quicker customer turn over.
 

GotWake

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Sorry man
But sunshine at the end of the sewer tunnel
It was not more than 25 over
I read through 75 pages yesterday of traffic district Iredell court
Every ticket written by a trooper but also every ticket 89 and below was just the ticket
Every ticket I saw that was 90+ had reckless driving attached to it
With a lawyer you WILL get improper equipment and zero points
Popped again you'll get 9 over 3 dmv but 0 insurance points
Sux sorry
Thank goodness for some cosine error from his angle. I imagine I was near 90 right in that area.

I’m going to get the ALPs back on in the next couple of weeks. I haven’t been hit in a while and had gotten lazy.
 

PointerCone

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I don't understand your American system.
People get busted speeding, caught dead to rights, and they get a lawyer to fight it.
1) Doesn't a lawyer cost more than a ticket and insurance for 1 hour of his time?
2) How does a lawyer get you out of ticket?
3) Cops usually have all the evidence, video, and their upstanding word. You have next to nothing usually unless you record some corrupt LEO action. How does a lawyer get around this?
4) Your time, money, effort, stress, lost wages to attend court or lawyer... How can you recover this with lawyers?
I understand sometimes a person has a lot at stake with a speeding ticket depending on recent record or profession but for the majority why default to a lawyer instead of sucking it up and moving on?
Personally I would up my CM game if caught, and only represent myself if I believe it wasn't fair.
Unless there was some sort of corrupt LEO action that deserved fighting with a lawyer.
Because we have a Constitution with fundamental rights, foremost of which is the right to confront your accuser (ticket writer and state) and procedural and substantive due process . How do we know he/she was trained and certified to use the gun and was the lidar gun certified, approved and in working condition. Was it tested before shift and after shift per the manual. Oh, and why is their word so "upstanding??"
Post automatically merged:
I should mention that for a long time now our tickets come as a computer printed form, like a slip from a cash register.
Our info is all auto filled by the system to reduce LEO input errors.
They only have to enter minimal info relevant to the offense pulled over for.
Most traffic cars have this. Saves time and quicker customer turn over.
We have those as well. I've gotten many off where the input was inaccurate. now, they do it by the laptop they have. Ultimately, doesn't change the result.
Post automatically merged:
:rofl: This reminds me the first time in court as a youngon. The judge was kicking people out for the clothing they were wearing.

View attachment 130156
Actually , its the opposite. You walk UP after the Judge just gave the last guy a shellacking and the Judge is MORE apt to be nice to you if you're not full of shite.
 
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midd

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What do they use for LIDAR there?

Well, it’s been probably 12 years since my last pull over. Really, I deserve this because I haven’t put my ALPs on my new vehicle. Anyway, I got popped via rear LIDAR today 85/65. I’m going to have to find me a lawyer. The old one I used in the past has long retired. It’s been so long I don’t even know the good ones in this area. :D
 

GotWake

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DC Fluid

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Because we have a Constitution with fundamental rights, foremost of which is the right to confront your accuser (ticket writer and state) and procedural and substantive due process . How do we know he/she was trained and certified to use the gun and was the lidar gun certified, approved and in working condition. Was it tested before shift and after shift per the manual. Oh, and why is their word so "upstanding??"
Post automatically merged:

We have those as well. I've gotten many off where the input was inaccurate. now, they do it by the laptop they have. Ultimately, doesn't change the result.
Post automatically merged:

Actually , its the opposite. You walk UP after the Judge just gave the last guy a shellacking and the Judge is MORE apt to be nice to you if you're not full of shite.
LOL, we have a constitution and rights here too. Our rights mirror yours fairly closely, other than that 2nd amendment and some rights that have been tempered to suit a more PC or inclusive or minority sensitive issues. Ours also gets updated a bit more frequently than never.
But anyways some differences in court like the person who sues and loses is responsible for court costs helps keep down the frivolous stuff.
LEOs get their word taken with high respect as they are sworn an oath to law enforcement and perjury could mean their career.
Mistakes are mistakes but being untruthful leads to a world of trouble for them. (Or should if caught)
I found watching TV court dramas and sitting in the court watching helps condition you to be successful going in to dispute a ticket. Police and judges always appreciate effort and preparation when you show up.
Too many just show up hoping to be dismissed because of LEO absence or act all indignant they got a ticket without any defense presented.
Be prepared, courteous and respectful of the institution gets you half way there.
Just like when LEO pulls you over, do you really want to be starting something?
 

jhunter2

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Well

1) Not really. A lawyer will probably be $300. 20 over in NC is your license. Show up to defend yourself with the wrong judge and watch what happens.
2) Local lawyers know the DA, they know the judges. They know who they can deal with.
3) True, I don’t have to be present since the lawyer is representing me. So, he can push the court date out and the LEO may not show up at the court date resulting in a dismissal.
4) I have no lost wages when the lawyer is showing up instead of me.

Really it comes down to your driving record. If it’s crap or your speed is too high, the lawyer isn’t going to do much for you. If you have a good record, he can help. The last time I got a 85/65 12 years ago. I got a lawyer and never thought about it again. I got a letter stating my ticket had been reduced to improper equipment. Honestly, it’s just all a racked.

Another thing people don’t think about when just paying a ticket. Let’s say you get a second ticket the following year. Watch what happens to your insurance. That’s the reason we fight all tickets here.
#3 is a Myth.........one that has been perpetuated for eons. All it takes is a phone call to dispatch and the officer who wrote you a ticket will be in court to testify should you decide to have a trial. Our judges will "show cause" the living shit out of an officer for not being present on his/her court date. Same goes for not complying with a lawfully issued subpoena. The reality of it is no one wants to waste time having a trial on a speeding ticket. Almost ALL jurisdictions negotiate to some type of non moving violation or a 9 over. And for those that don't know, a conviction for 9 over if you haven't had a conviction in the last 3yrs will NOT cause your insurance to increase (no one on your policy can have a conviction for a moving violation within 3yrs) I get clients rear seat belt tickets, improper equipments, failure to notify dmv reductions all the time. It isn't rocket science. The problem with our judicial system, as it relates to traffic matters is that they are nothing more than ways to generate revenue. There are literally thousands of speeding tickets written in NC on a daily basis. That means there are thousands of people who may end up appearing in court. How many 'public servants' do you think actually enjoy dealing with the public??? They do it because like most people they need some type of income. More often that not an attorney will get a better deal because most district attorneys do not want to interact with the thousands of people who get traffic violations. They also are not obligated to negotiate with you....or the attorney for that matter. .... If I can choose to talk to 10 attorneys about 1000 matters versus 1000 citizens or non officers of the court on 1000 matters......scenario number one is going to land you with better results.

#4 you technically have lost wages because you paid me to go in your place. That money could have been saved by you, used for vacation or whatever else your heart desires.

Additionally, not all matters involving speeding are waivable offenses. Most jurisdictions do not care if the defendant is present as long as there is an attorney representing him/her. Some do, and if your attorney doesn't know wtf he/she is doing, you might get an order for your arrest!

Happy Friday!!!
 
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asleeper

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#3 is a Myth.........one that has been perpetuated for eons. All it takes is a phone call to dispatch and the officer who wrote you a ticket will be in court to testify should you decide to have a trial. Our judges will "show cause" the living shit out of an officer for not being present on his/her court date. Same goes for not complying with a lawfully issued subpoena. The reality of it is no one wants to waste time having a trial on a speeding ticket. Almost ALL jurisdictions negotiate to some type of non moving violation or a 9 over. And for those that don't know, a conviction for 9 over if you haven't had a conviction in the last 3yrs will NOT cause your insurance to increase (no one on your policy can have a conviction for a moving violation within 3yrs) I get clients rear seat belt tickets, improper equipments, failure to notify dmv reductions all the time. It isn't rocket science. The problem with our judicial system, as it relates to traffic matters is that they are nothing more than ways to generate revenue. There are literally thousands of speeding tickets written in NC on a daily basis. That means there are thousands of people who may end up appearing in court. How many 'public servants' do you think actually enjoy dealing with the public??? They do it because like most people they need some type of income. More often that not an attorney will get a better deal because most district attorneys do not want to interact with the thousands of people who get traffic violations. They also are not obligated to negotiate with you....or the attorney for that matter. .... If I can choose to talk to 10 attorneys about 1000 matters versus 1000 citizens or non officers of the court on 1000 matters......scenario number one is going to land you with better results.

#4 you technically have lost wages because you paid me to go in your place. That money could have been saved by you, used for vacation or whatever else your heart desires.

Additionally, not all matters involving speeding are waivable offenses. Most jurisdictions do not care if the defendant is present as long as there is an attorney representing him/her. Some do, and if your attorney doesn't know wtf he/she is doing, you might get an order for your arrest!

Happy Friday!!!
#3 won't do any good in VA either. If you ask for a continuance (assuming it's granted) it will be rescheduled on the officer's next court date which is usually the following month.
 

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