ALP Bug - weak GPS sensor

STS-134

Advanced User
Premium Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2014
Messages
9,926
Reaction score
8,414
Location
Saratoga, CA
I have said it since the TX Sensors came out that GPS would be required and AntiLaser WILL NOT change this requirement. We have had this same conversation for over 2 years and they are not going to change this.
Yes you did. But what you didn't say is that GPS would later be required even for people running only Rx heads if they have a V4 CPU. That's changing something that didn't exist before.

We have 1000's of customers running this configuration and no one has an issue with this except a handful of members here that don't like the GPS requirement Show me this being an issue in the real world. .
@angrypenguin just did, in this thread no less. @omgboost and I provided additional examples.

HW2 CPU's were never sold requiring the GPS so they cant force that requirement on older systems already sold without the requirement... GPS requirement was added with the TX Sensors and all new HW versions will require it as standard regardless of the configuration. Love it or hate it that is their policy and no whining or complaining is going to change it.
The arrogance of those at AL HQ just shows how badly they need competition. They can't even get all of the damned bugs out of their software and they are continuing to add features and causing regressions. And they clearly don't test their code thoroughly before shipping it because they've shipped stuff with some pretty bad bugs. Errors EVERY SINGLE TIME they're started in a vehicle with laser FCM and there's any sort of object within 15 feet? Come on. As customers, we pay them to add support for the latest guns and fix all of the bugs. We shouldn't have to spoon-feed them bug reports for stuff as simple as that. I can understand if it was some really obscure test case that's only encountered very rarely, but this is very simple stuff. Maybe it's about time they actually start fixing issues instead of trying to add more crap on top of their broken code base. Only reason they continue to go down this path is that they're currently on top and they don't see it affecting sales.

Here are the bugs I've encountered just in the last three days:

1. Pulling out of garage, the ALP beeped 6 times as usual, but didn't announce "interference defense active". This has been intermittent and occurs seemingly randomly since I installed the old equipment in my new car.

2. After upgrading the firmware, I had to reset & memorize sensors again, which is a known issue. I decided to pull a stats file, to make sure the new configuration was the same as the old configuration. I accidentally tried to "Save to USB" without a USB device inserted. Of course, writing failed. I then plugged in a USB device and writing still failed. I tried again and writing failed again. I then rebooted the device, and writing succeeded. I've tried to reproduce this but it appears that this is another bug that occurs intermittently or randomly. And I didn't have time to test whether this bad state actually affected the ALP's ability to jam, but given what I've seen on this system, I don't trust it to do what it's supposed to when ANYTHING unusual happens. I am trying to reproduce this bad state again to see if jamming is affected but I've been unsuccessful.
 
Last edited:

Dukes

Advanced User
Premium Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Messages
5,414
Reaction score
11,205
Location
Alberta, Canada
HW2 CPU's were never sold requiring the GPS so they cant force that requirement on older systems already sold without the requirement... GPS requirement was added with the TX Sensors and all new HW versions will require it as standard regardless of the configuration. Love it or hate it that is their policy and no whining or complaining is going to change it.
Post automatically merged:


Come on... Your serious? I have a lot of respect for you but this is really pushing the BS limit... Speeding in the Lincoln Tunnel? I would like to see someone speed though that tunnel.. If it takes you 5 minutes to get through the tunnel you are traveling much lower than the speed limit. At 50 MPH it will take you less than 2 minutes and well under the lockout limit. If it rakes you 5 minutes to go 1.5 miles you tell me how fast they are traveling? No one in the real world has any issues with the requirement expect a handful of users here.

I'm dead serious. The "BS limit" started when you suggested that current customers buy other products after AL recently implemented a restrictive firmware update.
 

BestRadarDetectors

Manufacturer
Advanced User
Premium Member
Manufacturer
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
12,414
Reaction score
28,407
I'm dead serious. The "BS limit" started when you suggested that current customers buy other products after AL recently implemented a restrictive firmware update.
I have told everyone atleast 30 times that the requirement is not going away. So yes if this one feature bothers someone so badly they will have to look at other products because AL has made it clear its not going away. Not sure if I need to say it 100 or 1000 times more its not going to change.
Post automatically merged:
@angrypenguin just did, in this thread no less. @omgboost and I provided additional examples.
omgboost moved his antenna and his issue is gone
angrypenguin claims he has a car with no GPS signal. If that is the case he will not be able to use an ALP or extend the length of the cable and mount it outside if all his glass in the car really blocks GPS signal 100%.
 
Last edited:

omgboost

Left Lane Hog
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
3,595
Reaction score
3,968
Location
Forced Induction Land
Is it going to take you over 5 minutes to go over the bridge above the speed limit with zero signal? You guys are really exaggerating this setting issue. The VZ Bridge is 4260 feet and speed limit is 45 so if you are lucky enough to not have traffic it will take you less than a minute and you would have Zero issue.
Like I said before, this wasn't really the issue I was bringing up. I know there is a limitation on losing the signal in tunnels and such so I know I will be unprotected for a short period of time. However, my original point was that you said you had defense mode in the full length of the Lincoln tunnel in bumper to bumper traffic. Now, I take that as there is a lot of traffic and would take like 10 minutes to cross the tunnel. My situation, I was in the tunnel and maybe only protected for 2 minutes before going into yellow and going back into blue when I'm outside of the tunnel. So there is a difference in system operation here. And that is the issue I was bringing up.
 

BestRadarDetectors

Manufacturer
Advanced User
Premium Member
Manufacturer
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
12,414
Reaction score
28,407
Like I said before, this wasn't really the issue I was bringing up. I know there is a limitation on losing the signal in tunnels and such so I know I will be unprotected for a short period of time. However, my original point was that you said you had defense mode in the full length of the Lincoln tunnel in bumper to bumper traffic. Now, I take that as there is a lot of traffic and would take like 10 minutes to cross the tunnel. My situation, I was in the tunnel and maybe only protected for 2 minutes before going into yellow and going back into blue when I'm outside of the tunnel. So there is a difference in system operation here. And that is the issue I was bringing up.
I dont even know the exact time but its around 5 minutes with Zero signal before the ALP will kick you out of defense mode. It will depend how long it will take you to travel that 1.5 miles of that tunnel but in reality as you said its not a big issue and guys are making it to be the end of the world.
 

omgboost

Left Lane Hog
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
3,595
Reaction score
3,968
Location
Forced Induction Land
I dont even know the exact time but its around 5 minutes with Zero signal before the ALP will kick you out of defense mode. It will depend how long it will take you to travel that 1.5 miles of that tunnel but in reality as you said its not a big issue and guys are making it to be the end of the world.
Ok thank you. That is what I wanted to know. Seems like it's working as it should be. I did have some weird issue right after I updated the firmware and went up to the finger lakes and kept losing gps signal in some of the country roads so I wanted to make sure my gps wasn't going bad.
 

Tb12

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
355
Reaction score
557
Location
MA
Is it going to take you over 5 minutes to go over the bridge above the speed limit with zero signal? You guys are really exaggerating this setting issue. The VZ Bridge is 4260 feet and speed limit is 45 so if you are lucky enough to not have traffic it will take you less than a minute and you would have Zero issue.
This is actually a very common occurrence in the Big Dig tunnel in Boston. 3.5 miles, often has very slow traffic in first half but is wide open later. Even at speed limit (45) it's 5 minutes. There is also active speed enforcement in there.

Also very common to enter at 5-10mph and then have it open up later.

Even if the TX is disabled, ideal behavior would be to still keep the Normal sensors active rather than disabling everything.
 

Riptide

Recovering M3 Addict
Advanced User
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
6,693
Reaction score
1,693
This is not really new behavior from AL. If memory serves, the ALG9 settings forced a JTK timer on the user to prevent idiots who didn’t know any better from jamming to gun. There was a special code you could enter that would enable JTG, but distributors were supposed to only give this out to lidar testers. BRD is just the messenger here and likely couldn’t get rid of the GPS requirement if he wanted to.
 

angrypenguin

Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
3,264
Reaction score
2,976
Come on... Your serious? I have a lot of respect for you but this is really pushing the BS limit... Speeding in the Lincoln Tunnel? I would like to see someone speed though that tunnel.. If it takes you 5 minutes to get through the tunnel you are traveling much lower than the speed limit. At 50 MPH it will take you less than 2 minutes and well under the lockout limit. If it rakes you 5 minutes to go 1.5 miles you tell me how fast they are traveling? No one in the real world has any issues with the requirement expect a handful of users here.
Don't you dare start to blame customers for using this product as a consequence of being a speeder. It is rarely EVER appropriate to blame a customer, and in this case, absolutely unequivocally inappropriate.

Can you imagine buying a fitness machine and then when the user complains that it's not working a vendor responds with "Just don't eat so much"?!
 
Last edited:

Saussie

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
511
Reaction score
317
Location
Planet X
Edited as a little extra reading answered my question.
Another question comes to mind now though. If using a HW1 CPU for jamming, with no tx, do you still get unlimited jam time, or is this update based? If so, for a HW1 CPU, what's the best update file to keep it with unlimited time (if possible/still possible?) and still keep it basic as well as having a solid kinda as up to date as you can get HW1 CPU?
Where is the list of update versions held and do they go all the way back in time to the first version purely for the user to choose from?
 
Last edited:

STS-134

Advanced User
Premium Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2014
Messages
9,926
Reaction score
8,414
Location
Saratoga, CA
Don't you dare start to blame customers for using this product as a consequence of being a speeder. It is rarely EVER appropriate to blame a customer, and in this case, absolutely unequivocally inappropriate.
I'm really getting tired of the BS excuses. Everyone who does bring up issues has his or her comments dismissed as "corner cases" and is told that "no amount of complaining is going to change this". Someone brought up the Big Dig in Boston, but there's an even better example of a long tunnel which I experienced this summer (or was it this winter? Okay it was this June/July which was winter down there and summer up here): the Costanera Norte tunnel in Santiago, Chile. You're literally underground for 4 km and my dashcam completely lost the GPS signal the entire time. Gral. Prieto 1430 to Gral Calderón 127

Can you imagine buying a fitness machine and then when the user complains that it's not working a vendor responds with "Just don't eat so much"?!
I can imagine a fitness machine vendor doing this if nobody else has a fitness machine product that works as well as theirs. Their product might have 50 flaws and might get worse with every update, but if their best competitor has 200 flaws, well... Then they'll require that you purchase what was previously an optional module to continue to get functionality in a specific use case, but you're told that even with this add-on, the fitness machine doesn't work on Tuesday evenings between 6 pm and 10 pm, and no amount of complaining is going to change that. If you don't like it, get another product, or adjust your workout schedule.

It doesn't make it right, but you can understand why they'd do it.
 
Last edited:

PY004

RDForum Owner
Administrator
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
2,405
Reaction score
5,442
Location
Queens, NY
Even if the TX is disabled, ideal behavior would be to still keep the Normal sensors active rather than disabling everything.
It is kept enabled and will defend you in that state. It just doesn't against certain Dragon guns.
 

asleeper

Advanced User
Premium Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
1,245
Reaction score
2,135
Location
Virginia
It is kept enabled and will defend you in that state. It just doesn't against certain Dragon guns.
Which is where maximum performance is needed. It doesn't make sense to limit the system's ability against the most difficult to jam lidar out there. While I don't have ALP's in my car, I can understand the concerns being brought up in this thread.
 

Tb12

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
355
Reaction score
557
Location
MA
It is kept enabled and will defend you in that state. It just doesn't against certain Dragon guns.
Is this confirmed behavior? The app with Bluetooth makes it seem like it's not, as below ~20mph limit I get "detection only" and a yellow car on the screen. This seems to hold for when I lose GPS as well (I get a blinking gps dish and a yellow indicator or just a zero speed reading and yellow indicator). At first startup, before GPS lock, I do get a blue indicator.

Basically, if it ever drops down into "detection only" mode, I can't be sure I'm protected even against lesser guns. Totally fine if this is set with the LID speed limit, of course.
 

angrypenguin

Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
3,264
Reaction score
2,976
Is this confirmed behavior? The app with Bluetooth makes it seem like it's not, as below ~20mph limit I get "detection only" and a yellow car on the screen. This seems to hold for when I lose GPS as well (I get a blinking gps dish and a yellow indicator or just a zero speed reading and yellow indicator). At first startup, before GPS lock, I do get a blue indicator.

Basically, if it ever drops down into "detection only" mode, I can't be sure I'm protected even against lesser guns. Totally fine if this is set with the LID speed limit, of course.
I've been back and forth on this and the more I think about it the more I'm on your side.

It is without a doubt that prior to GPS lock after initial startup, the ALP will jam minus the TX head. We all agree there.

However, I think you're right on the behavior of the system after the GPS loses signal post acquisition post startup. I think it does just go into detection only/yellow mode.
 

angrypenguin

Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
3,264
Reaction score
2,976
It seems that BRD is basically just the messenger here. People need to email AL directly and make their concerns known and clear to them. They're the ones who can resolve this issue.
Truth be told he's not even the messenger given his recent comments about ignoring people who ask the tough questions and those won't believe some of the stories he feeds the community (like the purpose of the GPS requirement). For someone who is the face of ALP, he should be more customer oriented, but it is what it is. Someone recently made a statement to me in private with an analogy between ALP and a former laser jammer product and the face of that product and it made me double-think. I'll leave my subsequent thoughts to myself.
 

STS-134

Advanced User
Premium Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2014
Messages
9,926
Reaction score
8,414
Location
Saratoga, CA
It seems that BRD is basically just the messenger here. People need to email AL directly and make their concerns known and clear to them. They're the ones who can resolve this issue.
Except he isn't simply saying that he's not responsible and referring the matter to those who are. He's instead continuing to make excuses for those who are responsible, dismissing comments and reports of problems as "extremely rare", etc. Which by the way is actually a pretty lame excuse because for most of us (like, everyone who doesn't live in Edmonton), even being shot with LIDAR is a pretty rare event, and we purchased the ALP to protect against these rare events. When one of us brings up a situation where this would have been a problem, we are told to simply not speed in these scenarios (I mean really? If I just wanted to slow down so I didn't get tickets, I wouldn't have purchased the ALP).

Then there are further corner cases that haven't even been discussed, such as: if you enter a tunnel at around 20 mph, are you supposed to always have to look at the ALP light to determine whether you are or are not protected? Also, what if you are inside the tunnel, with protection enabled but no GPS signal, and the timer expires just before you are shot with LIDAR from a LEO hiding on an overpass just outside the tunnel while you are still inside? Does it announce that it's going to disable protection and count down for at least 5 or so seconds before killing protection (i.e. "GPS signal lost, defense mode will deactivate in five, four, three, two, one, defense mode inactive")? Or are we supposed to start a timer on our watches or phones so that we can be warned? Not that it would even help, because even BRD doesn't know how long the timer gives you until it expires.

Yes, it's true that it's highly unlikely that I'd ever encounter the exact set of circumstances that would screw me over, if I purchased a Tx head or a V4 CPU. I'd have to (1) Lose signal in a tunnel, (2) Remain in the tunnel for long enough for protection to be disabled, (3) Not notice that protection is disabled, (4) Get hit by LIDAR, and (5) Be above the speed limit and the LEO's pullover threshold, in order to seriously get screwed by this. But while the probability is low, the number of trials is high. People do take their ALP systems through tunnels every day; most probably don't stay in there long enough to lose protection, but some do. Most don't get hit by LIDAR, and of those who do, some probably happen to be going under the speed limit or at least aren't going fast enough to be pulled over. But the thing is, eventually, a high number of trials results in improbable outcomes occurring. Someone always eventually wins the lottery, right?
 

G37X Jockey

Advanced User
Premium Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
1,287
Reaction score
1,110
Location
Behind my Steering Wheel
Except he isn't simply saying that he's not responsible and referring the matter to those who are. He's instead continuing to make excuses for those who are responsible, dismissing comments and reports of problems as "extremely rare", etc. Which by the way is actually a pretty lame excuse because for most of us (like, everyone who doesn't live in Edmonton), even being shot with LIDAR is a pretty rare event, and we purchased the ALP to protect against these rare events. When one of us brings up a situation where this would have been a problem, we are told to simply not speed in these scenarios (I mean really? If I just wanted to slow down so I didn't get tickets, I wouldn't have purchased the ALP).

Then there are further corner cases that haven't even been discussed, such as: if you enter a tunnel at around 20 mph, are you supposed to always have to look at the ALP light to determine whether you are or are not protected? Also, what if you are inside the tunnel, with protection enabled but no GPS signal, and the timer expires just before you are shot with LIDAR from a LEO hiding on an overpass just outside the tunnel while you are still inside? Does it announce that it's going to disable protection and count down for at least 5 or so seconds before killing protection (i.e. "GPS signal lost, defense mode will deactivate in five, four, three, two, one, defense mode inactive")? Or are we supposed to start a timer on our watches or phones so that we can be warned? Not that it would even help, because even BRD doesn't know how long the timer gives you until it expires.

Yes, it's true that it's highly unlikely that I'd ever encounter the exact set of circumstances that would screw me over, if I purchased a Tx head or a V4 CPU. I'd have to (1) Lose signal in a tunnel, (2) Remain in the tunnel for long enough for protection to be disabled, (3) Not notice that protection is disabled, (4) Get hit by LIDAR, and (5) Be above the speed limit and the LEO's pullover threshold, in order to seriously get screwed by this. But while the probability is low, the number of trials is high. People do take their ALP systems through tunnels every day; most probably don't stay in there long enough to lose protection, but some do. Most don't get hit by LIDAR, and of those who do, some probably happen to be going under the speed limit or at least aren't going fast enough to be pulled over. But the thing is, eventually, a high number of trials results in improbable outcomes occurring. Someone always eventually wins the lottery, right?
Yes I get your point. ALP is, in a limited way, comprising the performance of their system just so they can protect their IP with the GPS setup. I still feel that since BRD has made it clear that he doesn't recognize the seriousness of this issue (for an admittedly small number of users) and will not push the issue with ALP, it's up to us, their customers, to complain directly.
BRD has always been a strong advocate for us in making ALP better so his perspective on this design flaw is hard to understand. It's clearly a very small chink in the armor but a hole nevertheless for a limited number of users. ALP can and should find a workable solution, and if they're unwilling to do so, install an audible error notification so we are clearly aware when Defense mode is temporarily offline. If a head goes bad the system tells so we don't drive around unaware that we're not protected. This is really no different.
 

Saussie

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
511
Reaction score
317
Location
Planet X
OK... I'm watching this argument unfold. Simple answer for the manufacturer would be to leave the gps to the radar side of things. The TX in my opinion does not need gps at all. By doing this it would be a much more solid setup, and adding gps for all the other automated stuff as an add on would be good. Seems this is all about dragon eye at the end of the day. Gps doesn't seem essential to me other than the fact they tied it in with the TX. Untie it and everyone's winning by the sounds of it.
 

Discord Server

Latest threads

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
78,465
Messages
1,194,277
Members
19,998
Latest member
bigcat
Top