V1 WILL be updated

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dougr

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It would be almost trivial (if you had VR's engineering lab) to build a radar receiver using SDR technology, and a very good one at that. The complicated part is training a machine (computer) to look at that spectrum and make sense out of it in real time.

My only point to mentioning this is to offer some encouragement that it's entirely possible that VR has been working on something along those lines. Such an approach would fit perfectly with VR's previously stated philosophy of not using GPS lockouts, the bogey counter, etc.
Let's not forget, Jon at Radenso is an enthusiast who took over a business. Kudos. But Mike is an actual radar/electronics engineer and genius, who started a business. He really started an industry. Different paths. But agreed, Mike has to know SDR is out there, of course. The problem is, the patents don't seem to support the use here. And if not SDR now, then when? He's got finite time on this Earth.

From what I've been reading from sleuth posts, the VR office is small. Could it even house a full on lab? Has VR outsourced production and engineering overseas? I don't even know where they're made anymore.
 
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DrHow

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This pretty much sums up this thread...

One mans fire floating down a flooded plain, is another iron man tough person persons place for a good barbecue. :)
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I love Trump Doral, and have been there last three years for biz. People do need to go to one of his places, chill, relax, do business, enjoy. Your memes lately have added enjoyment for me. Thanks
 
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Jon at Radenso

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Let's not forget, Jon at Radenso is an enthusiast who took over a business. Kudos. But Mike is an actual radar/electronics engineer and genius, who started a business. He really started an industry. Different paths. But agreed, Mike has to know SDR is out there, of course. The problem is, the patents don't seem to support the use here. And if not SDR now, then when? He's got finite time on this Earth.

From what I've been reading from sleuth posts, the VR office is small. Could it even house a full on lab? Has VR outsourced production and engineering overseas? I don't even know where they're made anymore.
What does it even mean to be an engineer? A couple of my engineers do not even have degrees in their specialties, because these things evolved so quickly that they did not exist when they were in school. This is something I am intensely proud of because it means they know how to learn instead of being sticks in the mud.

I am not a “professional pianist,” but I have played a Brahms concerto with the Dallas Ft. Worth Symphony Orchestra - something most “professional” pianists will never achieve. And people paid money to hear me play - does that make me a “professional?”

Mike can certainly design better RF circuitry than I can (I can’t design any), but as limited as my knowledge is compared to our lead engineers, I’d bet my career I know how to better write code to configure and have a better understanding of modern digital transport protocols like ZMQ than Valentine does. Both of these are necessary to create a modern radar detector product.
 
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thefrog1394

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I'll throw in some random observations regarding some other products that were announced in relation to VR.

It's relatively well known that Mike is into amateur radio. SDR technology is well known in the amateur radio world, it's almost omnipresent these days. An typical amateur station would have a screen with that display that looks just like what is in the promo videos from the convention, what's called a "waterfall". Beyond the hobbyist aspects of amateur radio, SDR technology has revolutionized communications engineering, it's what makes the RF work in modern wireless phones and all kind of other communications systems, as well as military stuff. It's inconceivable that MV and other technical folks at VR would have been unaware of this technological approach. This overall concept is pretty obvious to anyone aware of the current state of communications technology, it's nothing secret or revolutionary really.

It would be almost trivial (if you had VR's engineering lab) to build a radar receiver using SDR technology, and a very good one at that. The complicated part is training a machine (computer) to look at that spectrum and make sense out of it in real time.

My only point to mentioning this is to offer some encouragement that it's entirely possible that VR has been working on something along those lines. Such an approach would fit perfectly with VR's previously stated philosophy of not using GPS lockouts, the bogey counter, etc.

One big problem I would foresee in trying to develop such a product is that there is so much that is possible, it would be hard to nail down what is actually useful and desirable. One could keep tweaking software and the human interface forever.

Some of the patents that were in the pipeline from years ago, they could have just continued pursuing as almost a disinformation tactic. From a hardware perspective, the SDR approach is pretty straightforward and likely nothing that could really be patentable. All the work is done is software. And the software development could be happening almost anywhere, it wouldn't have to be in the building at VR, if that was going on. They might even just release a "detector" with really simple software, and in similar fashion to the V1 of recent vintage, have an open interface and allow others to develop software for more enthusiast-oriented feature sets.

I have no information that this is actually happening, but just throwing it out there for contemplation. Maybe VR really was working on the penultimate "analog" detector. But them working on an SDR product is certainly within the realm of possibility in my opinion.
Here's the thing: what Radenso is doing isn't something that is completely off the wall. Something similar (both the AI aspect coming from folks like me with a software background and the SDR aspect from folks with a radio background) has been suggested both here and on Escort's forums, and probably talked about among countless enthusiasts offline. But the difference is that Jon, Radenso, and their investors were willing to take the risk and actually put time, money, and engineering talent into developing this.

I don't say this to knock Radenso. I'm sure they've come up with a lot of unique IP by investing in this, and at this point are clearly (IMO) far ahead of any other vendor in the space.

I think this might be what is so frustrating to some V1 diehards. Mike Valentine used to be the one that pushed boundaries. Hell, he basically invented the industry. But as of late, he, like everyone else in the industry, has been content to lay back and use ancient technology because no one was pushing the boundaries. The last major innovation in the space was the addition of GPS by Escort 15 years ago.

It's natural that some would hold out hope that V1 had something new and exciting in the cards. I've made it clear on this thread that I don't think that is the case due to the circumstances. But who knows, maybe they do.

In any case, I'm just glad that Jon & Radenso have taken it upon themselves to push this industry forward. If Mike surprises us and comes out with something competitive, then great! More competition is only good for us consumers. I think we'd all agree that if the only companies competing the space were Uniden and Escort then we'd be stuck with radar detectors becoming increasingly irrelevant.
 
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aim4squirrels

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I am not a “professional pianist,” but I have played a Brahms concerto with the Dallas Ft. Worth Symphony Orchestra - something most “professional” pianists will never achieve. And people paid money to hear me play - does that make me a “professional?”
Van Cliburn competition?
 

dougr

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Mike can certainly design better RF circuitry than I can (I can’t design any), but as limited as my knowledge is compared to our lead engineers, I’d bet my career I know how to better write code
This is the great head scratcher to me. Mike had to know about SDR all these years.

Q: when did you first get wind of SDR use in a detector? Some brainstorm meeting after getting into the biz? Or was it before entering the biz? Was it the reason for the entering the biz?
 
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Brainstorm69

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I look at it this way, if you are a customer or even a potential customer of a particular brand and have a gripe, concern or opinion, where better to post it? @dougr is not trolling here.....THAT is absurd......he's simply frustrated (as are many) with the situation at VR. In fact, it would be ridiculous to express that in any other section of the forum.

And we should all remember what intolerance of other's opinions led to on "other" forums. It wasn't trolls that brought them down, but rather extreme intolerance and highly biased moderation.

So VR is going to take some heat here. Agree or disagree but live and let live and we'll keep this forum from sharing the same fate.
Well said. I don't understand the attitude that this subforum is only for V1 "enthusiasts" (i.e., if you have something negative to say about V1, stay out). I don't recall any RDF rules that require one to own a particular detector or be an "enthusiast" of that detector to post in that detector's or brand's forum. Diversity of opinion is good and can lead to good discussions.

That said, keeping discussions civil and not trolling are rules here. And. should. be. followed. period.
 
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txbearsfan81

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As a radar enthusiast, Ive owned multiple radar detectors and brands for years. One of which was a V1 with current software for a while and got rid of it because of false alerts.

As a veteran of this forum, Ive been cruising through the different sections of this forum for a while now. I love innovation, paradigm shift, foward thinking, investment into R&D and actual risk taking by implementing great ideas. What Radenso looks to be doing is revolutionary. They are implementing what some of us have been asking for, for years. It will have to be tested first of course but if it comes to fruition, I think all legacy detector (Radenso's term) companies are in trouble. This includes Valentine, Escort, Uniden etc.

Ive looked over Mikes patents. It appears nothing in them will truely address false alerts the way AI and Radensos apoach potentially can. Mike Valetine, basically sat on his ass for years and only made marginal improvements and charged people for them. Ingenious really if you have loyalists who will continue to pay for each marginal upgrade. A paradigm revolutionary jump from another company will come and bite him in the ass though.

Mike knew about AI. Its been litereted all over this forum for years. Escort lied and touted they had true AI in its detectors, when they dont. Mike has no excuse. Another company invested millions into making a big risk and took jump. Mike Valentine didnt. He rode and is riding the Name and reputation but isnt truely innovating. At least not in a reasonable time and in a customer viewable way. Thats on him. Just as it is on Escort for only making marginal changes to each of their new detectors them charging a first born child for each one. They both made their beds, now must lay in them.

With that being said, while I dont see the revolutionary jump with Mikes patents, I wish Valentine all the best, whether that is closing up shop or making marginal improvements and charging people for them. He has a loyal dedicated fan base who is reluctant to switch regardless and he should use that to his advantage and continue to extract money from them. I wish Mike Valentine the best, either way. In the end, he will be alright and I am glad he will be.
 
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dougr

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I look at it this way, if you are a customer or even a potential customer of a particular brand and have a gripe, concern or opinion, where better to post it? @dougr is not trolling here.....THAT is absurd......he's simply frustrated
You know what prompted my post was the shock about what Radenso has been working on. Whether they execute it or not isn't the point. The point is, that tech has been around for decades. There was a guy posting in the other forum about using transmitter identifying equipment as a cell phone worker back in the 90s, to ID individual cell phones down to the serial number simply by their signal characteristics. But never had anyone tried to put that in a detector all these years, until Radenso.

Hence the "maybe Mike knows the handwriting is on the wall" tone of my post. I loosely dismissed that type of thinking before the Radenso reveal this week. The V1 with JBV1 had still been near the top after all these years, and I didn't feel a great calling to go with the R7 or 360. To me VR hadn't fallen that far behind, they were just a little slow.

But after this week? Now I understand how truly far behind they are. That's the disappointment in Mike. I honestly had come to believe- no, kind of trusted- that he'd do better. I had no such feelings about Escort or Uniden, and probably that spares them in my mind. And that's a little unfair to Mike, perhaps.
 
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mpatel1080

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Even if Mike V starts shipping product again, if this Radenso product is the real deal I think Mike V will hang up his hat. The guy is near retirement age, and likely has a nice nest egg to live comfortably. I don't think he has the ability in house to develop a competitor with AI, as his expertise is in developing sensitive radio receivers. I don't think he will allow a product that is massively outclassed by a competitor to bear his name.
 

cihkal

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You know what prompted my post was the shock about what Radenso has been working on. Whether they execute it or not isn't the point. The point is, that tech has been around for decades. There was a guy posting in the other forum about using transmitter identifying equipment as a cell phone worker back in the 90s, to ID individual cell phones down to the serial number simply by their signal characteristics. But never had anyone tried to put that in a detector all these years, until Radenso.

Hence the "maybe Mike knows the handwriting is on the wall" tone of my post. I loosely dismissed that type of thinking before the Radenso reveal this week. The V1 with JBV1 had still been near the top after all these years, and I didn't feel a great calling to go with the R7 or 360. To me VR hadn't fallen that far behind, they were just a little slow.

But after this week? Now I understand how truly far behind they are. That's the disappointment in Mike. I honestly had come to believe- no, kind of trusted- that he'd do better. I had no such feelings about Escort or Uniden, and probably that spares them in my mind. And that's a little unfair to Mike, perhaps.
That describes how I feel, very well. Right or wrong, that's the path I've taken.

I thought Mike's VR was the skunk works of radar detectors. And actually, that's exactly what they are.

Valentine Research is the skunk works or radar DETECTORS. Radenso has moved in the direction of RF hardware detection and classification.

It's no longer apples to apples, and beyond this they operate under different business philosophies it appears.

I think Mike's company will continue to shine in the detector business, but I don't see any hint of them entering hardware detection and classification, based on public info.

I think detectors are ultimately limited in their capabilities compared to RF hardware classifiers, but there is a place for both. We can enjoy both for what they are. To compare them directly is a disservice to both skills.

I think eventually Mike will update the V1 and it'll be very cool, and probably the best RD on the market. Thanks for helping me get to this perspective. It'll help me enjoy both avenues, and no longer try to compare both companies as if they're competing with equivalent offerings.

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
 

mpatel1080

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That describes how I feel, very well. Right or wrong, that's the path I've taken.

I thought Mike's VR was the skunk works of radar detectors. And actually, that's exactly what they are.

Valentine Research is the skunk works or radar DETECTORS. Radenso has moved in the direction of RF hardware detection and classification.

It's no longer apples to apples, and beyond this they operate under different business philosophies it appears.

I think Mike's company will continue to shine in the detector business, but I don't see any hint of them entering hardware detection and classification, based on public info.

I think detectors are ultimately limited in their capabilities compared to RF hardware classifiers, but there is a place for both. We can enjoy both for what they are. To compare them directly is a disservice to both skills.

I think eventually Mike will update the V1 and it'll be very cool, and probably the best RD on the market. Thanks for helping me get to this perspective. It'll help me enjoy both avenues, and no longer try to compare both companies as if they're competing with equivalent offerings.

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
The fact of the matter is that in many areas radar detectors are basically becoming useless with the propagation of BSM systems and the inability of traditional detectors to properly filter out these signals. As more and more older vehicles get replaced this will worsen as BSM is a standard feature in all but the cheapest cars at this point. The BSM filtering is going to become the most important feature in a detector in the near future, otherwise the detector will keep signaling to K band.
 

Transporter

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The fact of the matter is that in many areas radar detectors are basically becoming useless with the propagation of BSM systems and the inability of traditional detectors to properly filter out these signals. As more and more older vehicles get replaced this will worsen as BSM is a standard feature in all but the cheapest cars at this point. The BSM filtering is going to become the most important feature in a detector in the near future, otherwise the detector will keep signaling to K band.

You miss the whole point, currently there are NO radar detectors on the market, they are all just Frequency Detectors tuned to the 3 Bands Police Radar operate in. They are NOT looking for Police Radar, they are looking for any Signal within the available Police Radar bands which is why they constantly false to K Band.

It looks like the Radenso Theia could actually be the first true Radar Detector to come to market where it actually does Police Radar Detection by Signal, not just by Frequency alone.

On a side note, Vehicle BSM is moving away from K Band. I pass 50 to a hundred cars everyday that I see a light in their mirror telling them I am beside them without a single peep out of my V1. I believe I read somewhere that a new 70 GHz Total Vehicle Awareness System is coming to market (it will include BSM, Adaptive Cruise Control, Assisted Parking, Following to Close Braking, all the safety stuff) .
.
 

Heywood

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On a side note, Vehicle BSM is moving away from K Band. I pass 50 to a hundred cars everyday that I see a light in their mirror telling them I am beside them without a single peep out of my V1. I believe I read somewhere that a new 70 GHz Total Vehicle Awareness System is coming to market (it will include BSM, Adaptive Cruise Control, Assisted Parking, Following to Close Braking, all the safety stuff) .
.
Yes, but the way cars are being made to last longer, the problem we see today will still be around for another 15+ years.
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I look at it this way, if you are a customer or even a potential customer of a particular brand and have a gripe, concern or opinion, where better to post it? @dougr is not trolling here.....THAT is absurd......he's simply frustrated (as are many) with the situation at VR. In fact, it would be ridiculous to express that in any other section of the forum.

And we should all remember what intolerance of other's opinions led to on "other" forums. It wasn't trolls that brought them down, but rather extreme intolerance and highly biased moderation.

So VR is going to take some heat here. Agree or disagree but live and let live and we'll keep this forum from sharing the same fate.
Well said. I don't understand the attitude that this subforum is only for V1 "enthusiasts" (i.e., if you have something negative to say about V1, stay out). I don't recall any RDF rules that require one to own a particular detector or be an "enthusiast" of that detector to post in that detector's or brand's forum. Diversity of opinion is good and can lead to good discussions.

That said, keeping discussions civil and not trolling are rules here. And. should. be. followed. period.
I really couldn’t have said it better myself.
 
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