Heywood's Lockout Zone/Range Testing July 22 2019

Heywood

Learning Something New, Still Dying Stupid
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
May 12, 2016
Messages
3,992
Reaction score
7,504
Location
Alberta Canada
So some were asking about "What happens if there's a 2nd K Band threat in a locked out area?" Well I have a little time again and decided to do a little test.

The detectors tested:
Radenso Pro-M FW US16
Escort Redline EX FW 1.15
Uniden DFR9 FW 1.02/1.01
Uniden R3 FW 1.48
Uniden R7 FW 124.124.111

Radar sources and Frequencies verified by the R-EX/R3/R7:
K Band Solar Speed Sign 24.138
Bushnell Velocity Gun 24.119

Course Length between the K sign and gun 2615.8 Feet. Measured by Fast Measure OBD Port VSS Measuring Tool

Both the Speed sign and Bushnell are facing south.

Video's of every run are available.

The measurements I'm listing is how far away from the locked out source I am before the detector starts alerting to the second gun. If you want to know how far from the gun, just take the course length of 2615.8 - ( whatever number I listed) = how far away from the gun it alerted. All measurements are in feet.

The detectors were cleared of the lockouts. First I ran each detector separately and Locked out the speed sign. Next I set up the Bushnell 2615.8 feet down the road shooting into the locked out area. It's more common in the city to place MRCD traps here, but other municipalities use this tactic with K Band. I wanted to see how each detector handled this situation.

Here's the video of each Detector getting locked out at the Speed sign.


From previous bench testing, I already know that the lockout radius of the DFR9 and R3 is .035 mhz. I just didn't know if distance from the locked out signal before it would start alerting us to the new threat placed further down the road. I'm glad the speed sign and Bushnell were within the .035. If there was a distance involved, this test would show it.

The Pro-M and the Original Max Locked out the whole K band spectrum at the GPS location.

First the R-EX
Highway mode TSF Off MRCD Off

The R-EX couldn't/ wouldn't release the locked out signal and pick up the Bushnell.

2 runs done on highway mode. No alert on either one. It was blind to the Bushnell. The frequency didn't even register. Here's the video of Run 1

AutoNoX Run
It did much better here
Run 1 - 1212.4 Feet from original Lockout to where it started to alert to the Bushnell
Run 2 - 1352.5
Run 3 - 1095.2


The R3
Hwy Mode
TSF Off/ K filter Off/ MRCD Off/ Signal Priority/ All Threats

Even though the R3 has the frequency cut off, it's not dependant on distance from the original lockout. It didn't matter if it was on city or highway. It did the best at picking up the Bushnell fairly quickly after the speed sign lockout, but it wouldn't give you an audible alert. You could see it ID the frequency of the Bushnell, but unless you were watching the display, you'd blindly drive right into the trap. Even when there was a break in the detection, the R3 continued to mute memory the 2nd signal that was never there during the original lockout of the speed sign

Here's the video of how it reacted.


City Mode.
It made no difference. Same as highway mode.
3 runs. No audible alerts


DFR9
This one really surprised me. I expected the same results, but I was wrong.
In Highway Mode
Run 1 - 839.7
Run 2 - 518.0
Run 3 - 495.4

City mode was hit and miss.
Run 1 - 636.9
Run 2 - No alert
Run 3 - No Alert

R7
This one was just like the R3.
2 runs on highway mode - No alerts. It could see it, but just like the R3, no audible alert.
2 runs on city mode. - same thing. I even tried to change up the alert from signal priority to Ka priority, but it made no difference.


To be fair, and I've had this discussion with @hiddencam on this situation while we were working on something else. If your way back, say 10,000 feet, the chance you'll see the alert from the Bushnell before the Speed sign is quite possible. The Bushnell has quite a bit more reach. Still, if you come from a side street, or say you come out of a shopping center, which you might have some door openers locked out, and a Leo has a trap in the vicinity where the frequencies are close, you could get stung.

You'll, see an example of this on Run 1 of the Pro-M. I started that run further back.

As long as you know the limitations, or understand what could happen in a locked out area, the better off you'll be. It just a tool in the toolbox. In these situations where the frequencies are in that .035 range, you'll have to use some situational awareness.


Radenso Pro-M

The Pro-M did pretty good. It was consistent. It didn't matter if it was in city mode or Hwy mode. It might lock all the K band signals in the locked out zone, but it had the most consistent release after you passed through the locked out zone.

It's off-axis was on par with the R7. Just for $hits and Giggles, I recorded a couple of distances from the corner before I tuned on to the course. Both the R7 and RPM had the best distance at picking up the Locked out speed sign before I was at the corner. Pretty impressed with both of them considering there's a few houses in the way and from 526 and 350 feet back from the corner before I even turned. You can see on the other videos where about the other detectors started seeing the locked out signal. The 2 were heads and shoulders above the others. It wasn't even close. I was surprised.


RPM Hwy Mode
Run 1 - 1430.6
Run 2 - 1935.8
Run 3 - 1444.2

RPM City Mode/ K0
Run 1 - 1454.6
Run 2- 1401.5
Run 3 - 1487.1



So we've seen how they reacted on the bench to a locked out frequency. Now we have some examples of how they react in a possible real world situation.

The normal RDF disclaimer that @Brainstorm69 started and its a good idea.

It's only one test so I would take that with a grain of salt. I encourage others to try it for themselves and share what you come up with. If you have any questions on the settings or anything, feel free to ask. These detectors are not my daily drivers, so the setting are going to stay the same for a while and I can easily look them up.

Heywood
 
Last edited:

RoadDogg

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
552
Reaction score
1,225
Location
Tennessee
@Heywood, Thanks for taking the time to do this test!! As your test shows, you definitely have to have situational awareness while traveling in “lockout” areas. I have had several of my detectors (an Escort iX, my R3, and my Max 360c) lock out real police K-band radar near “lockout” areas of K-band door openers on a particular stretch of road in my city that is saturated with several stores in close proximity that have K-band door openers on different frequencies. It hasn’t happened to me often, but it can happen as your test results show. I don’t use auto lockouts anymore on my Max 360c, and I rarely use manual lockouts on my R3 because my city’s police department uses quite a bit of K-band in addition to 34.7 and 35.5. I feel more comfortable using K-band lockouts in cities that I know don’t use any K-band, but I rarely use GPS lockouts anymore. Personally, between auto vs manual lockouts, I prefer manual lockouts vs auto lockouts so the user can decide what (if anything) the user wants to lockout.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

hiddencam

Advanced User
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
11,562
Reaction score
25,497
Very nice, thanks for the testing.

"Full course nothingness". You just coined a brand new phrase for testing! :laugh:
Thanks for the chuckles in the R-EX Hwy mode run. (especially the distance measurement). :lolhit: We ought to have a Testing Bloopers Thread.

The R3 and R7 footage highlights very nicely why optional K-band Bogie Tones (as you say bogie counter) should be implemented into the R-series FW. A quick unique tone would at least give a user a heads up that something is not kosher for that lockout. We obviously can't drive around all day/night staring at the display to be made aware.

Do you know if the Pro-M 1-Beep will give a beep at the sign, and another beep for the Bushnell frequency?

For the DFR9, nice, what was the TSF setting?
 

Kennyc56

Ford Lover-I/O hater!
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2018
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
7,714
Location
I/O Hell, Aka Eastern N.C.
Thanks for taking the time to run this test @Heywood ! I'll never have to worry about anything to do with lockouts cause I'll never use them!
 

InsipidMonkey

Premium Monkey
Advanced User
Premium Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
6,137
Reaction score
12,922
Location
New England
Great testing @Heywood!

K band detection behavior in lockout zones is something that doesn't get a lot of attention, but could easily burn you if you don't know how your detector reacts. Thank you for taking the time to do this! Hopefully some of the feedback will make it into future firmwares, especially if autolockouts are going to become default in the future.

This is one reason I'm thankful for apps, and the superior lockout implementation they provide. Maybe someday we'll have a detector powerful enough to implement (auto)lockouts properly! or filtering so good they're not necessary!
 

synistyr

I need more coffee
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2014
Messages
1,908
Reaction score
2,089
I know Radenso, at least, has worked on this since the early beta firmware days of the Pro M. As @Heywood mentioned, parking a MRCD truck under a K band speed sign is a COMMON occurrence up here (especially since the city has an addiction for buying K band speed signs).

I thought there was an issue that someone identified with the lockouts in US16, but I haven't heard about it.

I have seen similar behavior on a much smaller scale. There's a locked out parkade door I have near my place, but there's been construction. As soon as I entered the area the L lockout lit up, and the new K band alert started beeping.
 

DC Fluid

Planning ahead, always behind.
Intermediate User
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
841
Reaction score
1,228
Location
Prince George BC
@Heywood,
This is an unbelievable amount of time and effort you put into this. Seeing your 3 in the morning editing makes me feel for you.
This is just another of your many great tests, reports or advice that helps us general users understand these devices and their limitations.
I don't know what you do for work but this must really eat into your personal life.
My thanks to you.
On a side note, I get the distinct feeling that the Pro M is a pretty complete and useful detector for practical everyday use. High performance and low hassle.
My wife has it all locked up as her personal device now. So small for her delicate hands and slips into purse easily for parking in bad areas.
My R7 is a beast, with improvements undoubtedly coming soon.
This test helps me operate them in a way that leaves me least vulnerable to shady traps.
Well done sir!
 

Heywood

Learning Something New, Still Dying Stupid
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
May 12, 2016
Messages
3,992
Reaction score
7,504
Location
Alberta Canada
Very nice, thanks for the testing.

"Full course nothingness". You just coined a brand new phrase for testing! :laugh:
Thanks for the chuckles in the R-EX Hwy mode run. (especially the distance measurement). :lolhit: We ought to have a Testing Bloopers Thread.

The R3 and R7 footage highlights very nicely why optional K-band Bogie Tones (as you say bogie counter) should be implemented into the R-series FW. A quick unique tone would at least give a user a heads up that something is not kosher for that lockout. We obviously can't drive around all day/night staring at the display to be made aware.

Do you know if the Pro-M 1-Beep will give a beep at the sign, and another beep for the Bushnell frequency?

For the DFR9, nice, what was the TSF setting?
Lol. Yup. Ran a full course of nothingness.

I really didn’t expect that from the R-EX, R3, or R7. I thought, at least, that once you got closer that the stronger signal, and at 2600 feet away, there would be some sort of alert.

What was more troubling is, I did a pass through the traffic light at the end of the course to see if there was an end to the lockout area. The Unidens never stopped muting the frequencies until it disappeared. As long as there was a K band signal available, the mute memory kept going and going and going like the energizer bunny.

The Pro-M was the only one that would use the GPS option to end the lockout zone no matter if it was in Highway mode or City mode consistently.

TSF and TSRej was off on all the detectors, including the DFR9.

1-Beep of the Pro-M.
It didn’t alert as it’s used to give you a heads up that your entering/receiving a locked out signal. The Bushnell was never a lock out as it was never there when I did the lockout of the speed sign.
You could hear the “1-Beep” option on Run 3 in City mode of the Pro-M. I put it on so you could hear how far from the corner the Pro-M was picking up the 90° off axis lockout of the speed sign.
It’s not something that I run normally. Due to the amount of K band speed signs and door openers, it would never shut up.

Lucky for me, K band isn’t used for enforcement in Edmonton. It is however used elsewhere.
 

alloy00

vMax
Advanced User
Premium Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
2,644
Reaction score
2,852
GREAT testing - very difficult and I can imagine there was extensive planning to try and capture most scenarios/settings.

Really interesting as to how settings affect whether or not certain detectors will alert. But as HC said we should at least get a bogey tone if not a full-on warning. It "shouldn't" be like this but now we know and hopefully some/all manufacturers can respond with updates :)
 

Heywood

Learning Something New, Still Dying Stupid
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
May 12, 2016
Messages
3,992
Reaction score
7,504
Location
Alberta Canada
GREAT testing - very difficult and I can imagine there was extensive planning to try and capture most scenarios/settings.

Really interesting as to how settings affect whether or not certain detectors will alert. But as HC said we should at least get a bogey tone if not a full-on warning. It "shouldn't" be like this but now we know and hopefully some/all manufacturers can respond with updates :)
Thank you. I’ve run this scenario before so this time it wasn’t as bad figuring it out. Then again I had never ran it with the Unidens or Escorts so I wasn’t sure how they would react.
The Ka priority/signal priority.
All Threats on or off.
Those were concerns I had. I tried them on runs that I didn’t document to see if they made a difference.

@Heywood,
This is an unbelievable amount of time and effort you put into this. Seeing your 3 in the morning editing makes me feel for you.
This is just another of your many great tests, reports or advice that helps us general users understand these devices and their limitations.
I don't know what you do for work but this must really eat into your personal life.
My thanks to you.
On a side note, I get the distinct feeling that the Pro M is a pretty complete and useful detector for practical everyday use. High performance and low hassle.
My wife has it all locked up as her personal device now. So small for her delicate hands and slips into purse easily for parking in bad areas.
My R7 is a beast, with improvements undoubtedly coming soon.
This test helps me operate them in a way that leaves me least vulnerable to shady traps.
Well done sir!
I just finished a shutdown. I’ve got a little time off now.
6 weeks of 13.5 hour shifts 6 days a week. Time for some R&R
 

Deacon

TXCTG
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
9,794
Reaction score
12,930
Location
Hill Country, TX
Awesome testing. Seriously, very well done!

I know the V1 isn’t the best choice for people in some parts of the world for various reasons, and some people looooove to poop all over the very concept of a powerful background app running on the phone in their pocket, but those kinds of scenarios are exactly why I set up a hardwired V1 with BTLE and V1Driver loaded on both my phone and my wife’s in her daily driver and in the truck. In the Audi I still run the R3 just for the extra range, but I’ll probably sell it soon, and when that happens the R3 will get relegated to test mule only or sold off. Because as long as the moonshot range of the R series isn’t required, you can get so much more out of a V1 with an app handling things for you in the background (or foreground if you want, just not required). It would’ve been great to see a modern V1 added to the test, but I already know the two signals would not have confused V1Driver or JBV1.
 
Last edited:

Heywood

Learning Something New, Still Dying Stupid
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
May 12, 2016
Messages
3,992
Reaction score
7,504
Location
Alberta Canada
Unfortunately for me, the V1 is just a doorstop.

No MRCD detection is a show stoppers.
 

Deacon

TXCTG
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
9,794
Reaction score
12,930
Location
Hill Country, TX
No MRCD detection is a show stopper
Yeah, I fully understand why you don’t run one, and I’m glad I don’t have to face those same threats! It’s a bummer because otherwise it would still be a great option.
 

oldcelt

lurking in the tall grass
Advanced User
Premium Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
6,607
Reaction score
9,359
Location
Catskill Mts, NY
Glad I don't live in an urban area. I prefer the mute button for just this reason. Although I muted a known K band door opener a couple years ago at the exact same moment a NYSP Ka signal was picked up by the RL and the mute silenced both. If I hadn't glanced momentarily at the display I wouldn't have known. Was stuck in slow moving traffic anyway, but the mute held until after the NYSP passed (opposite direction)
 

6thgear

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
358
Reaction score
397
Location
Central FL
@Heywood THANK YOU for your time and for further looking into this. This answers many of the questions we have seen batted around before. One really hopes that Uniden introduces a bogey tone for K band, or unmutes K when a new signal is acquired (I favor the bogey tone concept).

Thanks again!
 

Heywood

Learning Something New, Still Dying Stupid
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
May 12, 2016
Messages
3,992
Reaction score
7,504
Location
Alberta Canada
@Heywood THANK YOU for your time and for further looking into this. This answers many of the questions we have seen batted around before. One really hopes that Uniden introduces a bogey tone for K band, or unmutes K when a new signal is acquired (I favor the bogey tone concept).

Thanks again!
Your welcome. It was your posts and others that had me wondering myself.
I’d done this before, but not with this many.

I’m just glad that I was able to help out. I’ve got a few other things in mind now that I have a bit of time.
 

Bloovy One

Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
3,926
Reaction score
7,643
Location
Western NC
Fantastic test!
One minor detail you might want to fix above: (I'm sure you were tired by this point! :) )
From previous bench testing, I already know that the lockout radius of the DFR9 and R3 is .035 mhz.
For those that might not see the issue; Radius is the distance all around in feet or meters from the lockout location. The lockout radius has been estimated at 600 feet for the R3 for example. The lockout frequency spread is 35 MHz above and 35 MHz below the target frequency. :)
 

Heywood

Learning Something New, Still Dying Stupid
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
May 12, 2016
Messages
3,992
Reaction score
7,504
Location
Alberta Canada
Radius is the distance from the center point to the edge.

Diameter is the distance across the centre point from one outside edge side to another. Like a circle. A straight point from one side to the other across the center axis.

The distance all around the circle is the circumference
 

Discord Server

Forum statistics

Threads
80,028
Messages
1,217,710
Members
20,252
Latest member
ray420
Top