Would Ka POP On mode reduce R1/R3 performance if only one Ka segment is active?

sdrawkcaB

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It does appear many users reported MRCD detection is better on v1.46 compared to v1.48. It also seems to be that normal K band detections were worse on v1.46, but better on v1.48. I can understand why you suggest remaining on v1.46 for the time being. Don't take what I say as fact, as I will admit I am not correct all the time :)

There is definitely some good discussion on this thread where member @Heywood shares his results using the Uniden R3 with firmware version v1.48 compared to v1.46. Heywood’s Feb. 11 2019 MRCD Testing

If you want to try out some settings without updating firmware right away, then I'd suggest turning off the K POP and Ka POP. Also turn on K and Ka Filter, and see what happens. The Uniden R3 is very quick at alerting to instant on K and Ka alerts, and should still be very safe to use without K and Ka POP.
 

Heywood

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It does appear many users reported MRCD detection is better on v1.46 compared to v1.48. It also seems to be that normal K band detections were worse on v1.46, but better on v1.48. I can understand why you suggest remaining on v1.46 for the time being. Don't take what I say as fact, as I will admit I am not correct all the time :)

There is definitely some good discussion on this thread where member @Heywood shares his results using the Uniden R3 with firmware version v1.48 compared to v1.46. Heywood’s Feb. 11 2019 MRCD Testing

If you want to try out some settings without updating firmware right away, then I'd suggest turning off the K POP and Ka POP. Also turn on K and Ka Filter, and see what happens. The Uniden R3 is very quick at alerting to instant on K and Ka alerts, and should still be very safe to use without K and Ka POP.
Your right far more than your wrong.

As usual, your right once again here.
 

skd

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My first goal here was mainly to test POP detection combined with MRCD on and FW 1.46 because of these of us who would like IO/POP protection in addition to mrcd. That way I've been driving now. Almost everybody is recommending POP off, based on @Vortex recommendations and I can see his point for North America, but there is very little information about the real world POP behavior, except from members like @DChiJEllis. Frankly I haven't had much falses with K POP now and had zero on Ka. So, I for now agree with DChiJEllis.

As to MRCD I remember your tests, @Heywood and a couple of tests carried out by other members here. They all confirmed either poor, or unstable MRCD detection with the latest firmware. That's why I am well aware of the compromise I've taken with K band operating 1.46. I still hope that 1.48 won't be the last song for r1/r3 models. I have read here that they are testing some stuff throughout Canada and hopefully they would come out with something much better and balanced between MRCD and K-band, so that we would drive much less concerned. For now I am going to keep on driving with 1.46 for at least a month with enough experience before upgrading, but from what I'm hearing from you I'm starting toying with the idea to make at least two runs from now on when I happen to past around something interesting with POP on and off and when I am not in a hurry. My K filter is on now, Ka filter is off and I see no reason to turn it on. Not a single false so far with Ka.

If you want to try out some settings without updating firmware right away, then I'd suggest turning off the K POP and Ka POP. Also turn on K and Ka Filter, and see what happens. The Uniden R3 is very quick at alerting to instant on K and Ka alerts, and should still be very safe to use without K and Ka POP.
I'll tell you what. I am going to drive these days to another neighboring city with at least two camera boxes on my way, similar to this one and will stop by and try 3 or 4 runs with MRCD on, POP on/off and K filter on/off in both directions while recording with my dash cam. Hopefully a MultaRadar camera will be set inside at least one of these boxes. We'll see if the reaction time and behavior would be different with POP on or off, and if MRCD detection would be compromised by the POP detection or K filters. Will share later, if i have something real...
 

UnidenSupport

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People keep asking this so I'm gonna go do a quick test to see if POP and segment 2 sweeps are mutually independent or not. One sec...
-- Double Post Merged: --
Okay so I just spent a few min bench testing the R3 and learned some new things. Uniden's POP / Segment 2 behavior is different than Escort's.

View attachment 123763

I tested an R3 with 1.48, Ka Filter Off, segged 2/5/8.

First off, with Ka POP off, the R3 doesn't alert to POP, as expected. Turn Ka POP on and the R3 does a great job picking up 67 ms Ka POP.

If you disable segment 2, the detector will no longer alert to 33.8, whether it's CO or POP.

Disable segment 2, but enable Ka POP, the R3 will alert to both POP as well as CO 33.8. The Ka POP setting overrides segment 2 off.

POP detection improves reactivity of the R3 to 33.8. The detector is very quick at picking up QT shots, but it will catch any crazy fast QT shots with POP enabled that are otherwise missed with POP disabled.

With POP enabled, all 33.8 detections are first alerted to as POP. Then if the signal's duration is long enough (a fraction of a second), the detector switches from displaying POP to Ka.

CO shots initially show up as POP.
QT shots initially show up as POP.
POP shots show up as POP.
Everything initially shows up as POP.
It's only if the signal is sufficiently long that it switches over and begins displaying a normal Ka alert.

The only signals that show up as POP and don't switch over to normal Ka are POP shots and fast QT shots. Medium/slow QT shots, IO, and CO will all quickly switch from displaying POP to Ka.

This is a bench test, not a long range test, but yes, enabling POP detection will improve reactivity to brief shots on the R3.

It will also display non-POP shots as POP so if you have this setting enabled, be prepared for your R3 to incorrectly alert to POP even when POP is not being used. This is not a foolproof way of differentiating POP vs. non-POP radar.

I'm sure you'll also see increased POP falses in general with the setting enabled too, but that's a different story.
We appreciate this information, and have passed it along to our Corporate office!
 

skd

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Yesterday (here) I went to the neighboring city to visit some relatives, and as planned, made a couple of tests with traffic cameras on my way there and back. Had plenty of time and took the chance. I got interesting results though. Here's the whole story and videos.

I have Uniden R1 with firmware 1.46 installed, TSF always OFF. All the test were being made in Highway mode because they were far from urban areas.

At first I thought that the camera in my vicinity, I was talking about, was a MRCD but for my surprise, when I reached, it turned out to be a really low powered K band camera. I knew it from the past encounters with it but didnt know what exactly was like. So, what the hell, I thought, I came here either way, let's just test it. I did 5 or 6 runs - front and opposite direction - and this is what happened:

Observation 1:
For some reason POP mode seriously diminished the rear approach detection time but the front approach detection time was almost unaffected. K filter rendered minimum or none impact. Detected frequency always 24.063 GHz.


Then I drove away to my destination and hoped to happen to get a full mrcd box somewhere. I have met at least three more boxes so far but unfortunately...

Then I was really UPSET from this :LOL: and made the flash decision to make a 70 km detour back home in a roundabout way, but was firmly determined to drive to that exact place, where another guy was shot a short video before and I had presented here. Said and done. On my way there I stumbled one more time across one of these nasty low-powered cams like the above one and R1 hardly managed to detect it 5 meters behind it. :(

An hour later was there and watch...

Observation 2:
POP mode again visibly compromises the rear approach detection time to a MRCD, but the front approach detection time was again almost unaffected. K filter rendered minimum or none impact.


Conclusion:
1. For some reason POP mode has not little impact over the rear detection of MRCD and low K band source, but almost none in front approach. Strange... This maybe is only case with FW 1.46 but hardly could be. With low K band and MRCD's, where every millisecond counts there, this kind of delay is unacceptable. It is enough braking distance even for minimizing possible consequences.
2. K band has minimum to now affection but a short delay or instability is visible.
3. The cleanest and fastest detection is with K filter off and POP off.
4. Use WAZE in addition or other good camera databases! It gives you good enough warning. In two of videos it is clear.

Personally, from what I've seen, I am turning POP off, unless there is some improvement with future firmware and will preferably drive with K filter off. For some reason even off, there are not many false alerts with R1 out of town. I was only shortly hit from frequances of gas station doors and the like, here they are: 24.116, 24.117, 24.135, 24.140, 24.163, 24.166, 24.200. I took someones idea here to speak them loudly after they were present, in order for me to not forget them. :)
 
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Heywood

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Awesome job @skd

Nice description and thanks for posting your results.
 

skd

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Also thank you for your results, @Heywood. They inspired me and I wanted to see some other unexplored details.

Now it is time for me to think about upgrading to this new FW 1.50. But maybe it's best I wouldnt hurry for now, there is probably nothing major there in my opinion as to K band and MRCD balance. Or should I? I'm more or less glad with 1.46 performance so far. Besides auto K-lockout of 24.194-24.205 would hardly help me here in most situations, as you can see the false frequencies above.
 

Brainstorm69

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@skd - Thanks for your testing! But man, using the std Ka tone for K-band messes with my head. :eek:
 

Heywood

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Also thank you for your results, @Heywood. They inspired me and I wanted to see some other unexplored details.

Now it is time for me to think about upgrading to this new FW 1.50. But maybe it's best I wouldnt hurry for now, there is probably nothing major there in my opinion as to K band and MRCD balance. Or should I? I'm more or less glad with 1.46 performance so far. Besides auto K-lockout of 24.194-24.205 would hardly help me here in most situations, as you can see the false frequencies above.
Thanks for the kind words.

I usually test the newest FW. The R3, or any of the windshield mount RD’s are not my daily used radar detectors. I usually run them for testing or when there’s a change like a FW upgrade. There’s lots of other people that test the normal stuff pretty quickly.

It’s a great advantage to be able to roll FW’s back and forth from an end user or enthusiast standpoint, but it creates havoc for the customer service reps when they’re trying to help a regular customer troubleshoot problems.

None of the other manufacturers outside Uniden allow it.

Will 1.50 make a difference against MR threats? I’ve already updated and going to try it out. It’s not listed as something that was worked on, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t get affected. Just look at my October 2018 MRCD shootout and February 2019 MRCD shootout.

For everyone else, try it and if it doesn’t work for you, you have the option to rollback to a FW you prefer.
 

skd

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Thanks for the kind words.

I usually test the newest FW. The R3, or any of the windshield mount RD’s are not my daily used radar detectors. I usually run them for testing or when there’s a change like a FW upgrade. There’s lots of other people that test the normal stuff pretty quickly.

It’s a great advantage to be able to roll FW’s back and forth from an end user or enthusiast standpoint, but it creates havoc for the customer service reps when they’re trying to help a regular customer troubleshoot problems.

None of the other manufacturers outside Uniden allow it.

Will 1.50 make a difference against MR threats? I’ve already updated and going to try it out. It’s not listed as something that was worked on, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t get affected. Just look at my October 2018 MRCD shootout and February 2019 MRCD shootout.

For everyone else, try it and if it doesn’t work for you, you have the option to rollback to a FW you prefer.
Oh, please do it. I and many other users will highly appreciate it. The Multa Radar is the reason for me to stick here to firmware 1.46 and apparently I'm not the only one. But if there is something worth upgrading to a newer FW version, I'll do it. Officially we see at the log only a K-lockout filter. Please, do a couple of runs if you happen to stumble across an MRCD/CT and if you spot something different or unusual unlike FW 1.48, I will upgrade to 1.50 too and will go for a second test again to confirm or not. It would be great to help each other in cooperation.

We should only thank Uniden that they allow us to go back and forth. I give million thumbs up to that. This was one of my main reasons to choose this brand, I always can go back if something is not working as it should be, here and now. This way we can choose the one that is most suitable for our local conditions, even for you in Canada or US. Every province and state obviously has various regulations, bands and measures. It could be confusing for the regular users but is perfect for an advanced user. I suggest to Uniden to put an additional menu option "Regular/Advanced user" with "Regular" by default and optional "Advanced" with many hidden tweaks, manual setting of every desirable specific K-band frequency and so on... This is a joke of course. lol Or maybe not. If there is will, there are results.
 

Heywood

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Sure thing.
I’ll probably do another MRCD tests soon. I have an R7 to add to the mix this time around as well.

With the extra db’s if the R7, it might just dethrone the Pro-M as the best MRCD windshield detector in the the market. That’s if it can start detecting MRCD properly and reliably.
 
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