Would Ka POP On mode reduce R1/R3 performance if only one Ka segment is active? (1 Viewer)

skd

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I've been wondering if in theory Ka Pop-On would affect R1 range or reactivity, if I activate only one Ka segment for 33.8 GHz? And that's my real case here. There are no 34.7 or 35.5 guns nearby for me to be worried about. I assume no, because the device would be dismissed from scanning the other segments, but would be glad to hear other opinions whereas I know that's not the case in the States. I don't feel nervous about Ka pollution either, because it's almost non-existent.
 

Elcid2015

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No, Ka POP is just 33.8. It would keep rescaning that segment. The only thing that may change is that it might alert to more falses, but you mentioned that wasn't a concern.
 
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DChiJEllis

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Ka Seg 2 and Ka POP are seperate sweeps (I'm going to edit this if @Vortex's test say otherwise). See this thread Ka POP, yay or nay in my specific circumstances. Ka POP only adds 28msec to the scan time from my own testing (thanks @sdrawkcaB). It won't affect range, it will affect reactivity slightly being much less to scan. But the R series being digital platforms are already some of the fastest out there. If anything, you risk more falses. That said, I had two falses in two years with the R3 and Ka POP on, and I've already had one BSM false with the R7 that caused it to show as Ka POP.
 
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Vortex

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People keep asking this so I'm gonna go do a quick test to see if POP and segment 2 sweeps are mutually independent or not. One sec...
-- Double Post Merged: --
Okay so I just spent a few min bench testing the R3 and learned some new things. Uniden's POP / Segment 2 behavior is different than Escort's.

123763


I tested an R3 with 1.48, Ka Filter Off, segged 2/5/8.

First off, with Ka POP off, the R3 doesn't alert to POP, as expected. Turn Ka POP on and the R3 does a great job picking up 67 ms Ka POP.

If you disable segment 2, the detector will no longer alert to 33.8, whether it's CO or POP.

Disable segment 2, but enable Ka POP, the R3 will alert to both POP as well as CO 33.8. The Ka POP setting overrides segment 2 off.

POP detection improves reactivity of the R3 to 33.8. The detector is very quick at picking up QT shots, but it will catch any crazy fast QT shots with POP enabled that are otherwise missed with POP disabled.

With POP enabled, all 33.8 detections are first alerted to as POP. Then if the signal's duration is long enough (a fraction of a second), the detector switches from displaying POP to Ka.

CO shots initially show up as POP.
QT shots initially show up as POP.
POP shots show up as POP.
Everything initially shows up as POP.
It's only if the signal is sufficiently long that it switches over and begins displaying a normal Ka alert.

The only signals that show up as POP and don't switch over to normal Ka are POP shots and fast QT shots. Medium/slow QT shots, IO, and CO will all quickly switch from displaying POP to Ka.

This is a bench test, not a long range test, but yes, enabling POP detection will improve reactivity to brief shots on the R3.

It will also display non-POP shots as POP so if you have this setting enabled, be prepared for your R3 to incorrectly alert to POP even when POP is not being used. This is not a foolproof way of differentiating POP vs. non-POP radar.

I'm sure you'll also see increased POP falses in general with the setting enabled too, but that's a different story.
 
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mattguy10

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People keep asking this so I'm gonna go do a quick test to see if POP and segment 2 sweeps are mutually independent or not. One sec...
-- Double Post Merged: --
Okay so I just spent a few min bench testing the R3 and learned some new things. Uniden's POP / Segment 2 behavior is different than Escort's.

View attachment 123763

I tested an R3 with 1.48, Ka Filter Off, segged 2/5/8.

First off, with Ka POP off, the R3 doesn't alert to POP as expected. Turn Ka POP on and the R3 does a great job picking up 67 ms Ka POP.

If you disable segment 2, the detector will no longer alert to 33.8, whether it's CO or POP.

Disable segment 2, but enable Ka POP, the R3 will alert to both POP as well as CO 33.8. The Ka POP setting overrides segment 2 off.

POP detection improves reactivity of the R3 to 33.8. The detector is very quick at picking up QT shots, but it will catch any crazy fast QT shots with POP enabled that are otherwise missed with POP disabled.

With POP enabled, all 33.8 detections are first alerted to as POP. Then if the signal's duration is long enough (a fraction of a second), the detector switches from displaying POP to Ka.

CO shots initially show up as POP.
QT shots initially show up as POP.
POP shots show up as POP.
Everything initially shows up as POP.
It's only if the signal is sufficiently long that it switches over and begins displaying a normal Ka alert.

The only signals that show up as POP and don't switch over to normal Ka are POP shots and fast QT shots. Medium/slow QT shots, IO, and CO will all quickly switch from displaying POP to Ka.

This is a bench test, not a long range test, but yes, enabling POP detection will improve reactivity to brief shots on the R3.

It will also display non-POP shots as POP so if you have this setting enabled, be prepared for your R3 to incorrectly alert to POP even when POP is not being used. This is not a foolproof way of determining POP vs. non-POP radar.

I'm sure you'll also see increased POP falses in general with the setting enabled too, but that's a different story.
Your attention to detail is top notch as always! Thanks for doing this test. I enjoy seeing all test results posted here on the forum, but random tests like this are the ones I enjoy checking out the most. Well done.
 

ron topa

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Thanks for that informative reply!
 

bentvalve3g

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That is awesome, Vortex! I've been curious about this because I've been seeing the occasional POP alert when 33.8 comes around, cool impromptu testing!
 

Vortex

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Yeah I like these kinds of tests too where we geek out and learn some of the details about how our RD's work. I don't like publishing them on YouTube as normal videos because they always raise tons of questions and so I have to provide a bunch of explanation and context. Sometimes it's fun to skip all that and go straight to nerding out. :)
 

Stretch

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Yeah I like these kinds of tests too where we geek out and learn some of the details about how our RD's work. I don't like publishing them on YouTube as normal videos because they always raise tons of questions and so I have to provide a bunch of explanation and context. Sometimes it's fun to skip all that and go straight to nerding out. :)
Great info thanks for talking your time out to do that! But you said there’s no reason to run that correct? If I remember right that is..
 

Vortex

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Great info thanks for talking your time out to do that! But you said there’s no reason to run that correct? If I remember right that is..
lol...

I think this time someone else can put the pieces together and I’m not gonna bother with additional explanation for a change. I’m just gonna leave the new test results up and leave the critical thinking part up to you all and see what you think. I’m curious to see what you think you should or shouldn’t do. :)
 

Stretch

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lol...

I think this time someone else can put the pieces together and I’m not gonna bother with additional explanation for a change. I’m just gonna leave the new test results up and leave the critical thinking part up to you all and see what you think. I’m curious to see what you think you should or shouldn’t do. :)
Lol uhh ok. Well I remember when I first grabbed my R3 I read on your page about it being non existent and how it actually affected KA range so I’ve always left it off. I have no guns to test actual range results with so I won’t take that chance on cutting range.
 

skd

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Thank you for all your guidance. I believe from all the tests seen it turns out that at some situations POP would be useful without sacrificing so much of a performance but being able to pick up every pop-alert. I didn't expected a special mini-test from Vortex, but obviously I am not the only one who was hesitating "whether or not". And this was a surprise because I was just watching your last video about Valentine One somewhere in the middle and bam there you are. :) POP reasoning is a really interesting matter raising debate and personally for me it's a matter of subjective stance whether to use it or not. It's kind of a compromise between performance and possible falsing. My question was specifically about only one active segment, I believe that was seg2 on 33.8 GHz but from what I learned I think this doesn't matter and it would be sufficient for me to only turn POP mode on to be able pick up both POP and CO/IO/QT signals at this segment 2 ( "Disable segment 2, but enable Ka POP, the R3 will alert to both POP as well as CO 33.8. The Ka POP setting overrides segment 2 off." ). I will just switch off the other segments, and segment 2 as well. just POP and will see how things would be going. Yeah, this device from the picture MPH Bee III is what takes my peace of mind. I am not sure and never would be if some officer would play games with me to pull me off only after an incorrect POP detection which wouldn't be according to law but it would be great for me to know that and be prepared with all CM's, incl. possible appeal. Though I'm not a hardcore speeder and use radar detectors to know what's going on and to be protected at this road points where speed signs are just stupid. And I know from what I've learned from my previous radar detectors that POP-detection is completely possible. First they just hit you with a POP and then IO to make record and that's where a pop would be highly usefull, I had two saves this way. But once I was just popped, was pulled off for a check and maybe officer knew, but he only gave me a verbal warning to go on carefully. I was only 20 kmh over a 60 kmh sign but this case is demonstrative enough that everything is possible. Later, after sufficient practice time, I will share if it makes sense in the real world and if false alerts will be bearable or unbearable. :)
 
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Delaney

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I think this time someone else can put the pieces together and I’m not gonna bother with additional explanation for a change. I’m just gonna leave the new test results up and leave the critical thinking part up to you all and see what you think.
  • POP detection improves reactivity of the R3 to 33.8. The detector is very quick at picking up QT shots, but it will catch any crazy fast QT shots with POP enabled that are otherwise missed with POP disabled.
  • This is a bench test, not a long range test, but yes, enabling POP detection will improve reactivity to brief shots on the R3.
  • I'm sure you'll also see increased POP falses in general with the setting enabled too, but that's a different story.
Hopefully more testing outside the lab is in order. But, the data from the bench test speaks for itself, the R3 reacts quicker to 33.8 with POP enabled.

That said, I do wonder if will POP falses outweigh the benefits of faster 33.8 detection?

This is a great example of the importance of ongoing testing and experimentation, which this group in my limited time here clearly excels at. Kudos to @Vortex for testing his previous POP findings and subsequent beliefs based on other brands (2015 POP Radar blog post) against the R3.
 

skd

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Good evening, dear American friends.

So, I mentioned earlier in another thread that I had a strange Ka 33.8 GHz experience a few days ago with my R1. Here I share my "remastered" cut of the footage. I would like to kindly ask you - the more experienced members among you - for opinions what this situation was supposed to be??? As you can see, first there were LEO's at the end of this town and then, maybe a mile ahead or less, my Uniden went off all of the nothing, and I mean in the middle of nowhere, with Ka 33.8 POP alert on screen. Could it be something in an unmarked car in traffic in front of me, or is it possible for the R1 at all to detect a short Ka burst from such a distance from behind? Or it's just a false alert but there was really absolutely nothing there around to interfere. Only the vehicles that you see. Very strange to me and I fail to figure it out.

My settings were:
Ka segmented 2
K POP on
Ka POP on
K-filter on
TSF off
Firmware 1.46 (because of MRCD's)



I had a second curious K-band experience and would be glad to hear your opinions again, what this alert could came from? The stationary camera or the police patrol down the highway? They die to use IO and POP here. I am well aware from the past experience.

If you have some doubts, you could see here how R1 reacts to a similar very low powered camera:

I would be very thankful for your kind help in my learning how to use this still remarkable radar detector here and to be able to make distinctions.
 
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sdrawkcaB

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Since we are on POP topic, does only MPH have it or do 34.7 and 35.5 have POP option aswell?

Posted from my SM-G975F using the RDF Mobile App!
Only MPH holds the patent for it, so you will only see it on MPH Industries manufactured radar guns. MPH only makes 33.8 Ghz Ka, and 24 Ghz K Band.
 

skd

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Guys, does really no one have no idea, or suggestion at least, to help me understand, what might have caused my R1 to go off with this POP Ka alert in the first video? Yeah, Ka POP is possible with MPH Bee III only 33.8 GHz indeed, albeit highly controversially. I know they use Bee III here, although not quite often, and I don't know if it could shoot on the move. Could it have been a false alert, but from what then? Or it was rather a legit alert? There are so many experienced participants at this forum and you have seen so much more Ka band out there. I just can't figure it out on my own.
 

skd

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No-one brought my thoughts to possibilities that I might not see. So I will share my personal thoughts with whoever of you is interested, because I don't wanna jump to firm conclusions. I showed this videos to a friend of mine with much experience with radar detectors, V1 and Escort Red Line mostly, and he helped me see details that I had missed. Still I am opened for corrections or other suggestions.

On the first video the black Mercedes overtook me speeding visually much more over PSL and then not so safe and fast overtook the white bus ahead of me too. I think it was IO/POP busted from an unmarked car that I believe was the last white car in the traffic ahead. This is allowed by law from 2017, LEO's are not obliged to mark themselves any more. There is no other plausible explanation for me being in the middle of nowhere, except that R1 could have sniffed a burst from the police car behind but I doubt it. The whole alert was announced as POP on screen and the rest you can hear clear. Just wondered if this is possible at all from such a distance behind and hoped for your opinions. It is more likely this police car could have been a second post for pulling off the speed offenders. But it's a fact and this was a real world situation, not just a bench test result.

On the second video I am almost certain that the alert came from the police car at the end of the footage. At first I thought it came from the cams above but these were just traffic cams like many more there and although my K-filter was ON, I don't believe it is even possible for this cam to be able to trigger alert at such an absurd short distance only after passing it. You can see on the third video what the distance with a similar radar cam was. I believe that the guy in the Mustang cabriolet was the target ahead and someone else before him. He passed on my left relatively slowly at first under the traffic cams and then maybe 1/5 mile ahead of me all of a sudden he accelerated like crazy and the signal came to me just at that moment when he passed by the gas station where LEO's were lurking there. At the moment of the second alert a black Mercedes was overtaking me and it quickly turned in the right lane and lowered the speed, I believe he had a RD inside too :rolleyes: Meanwhile the noob guy in the Mustang was not certainly realizing at all what was waiting there ahead for him. Most probably he got a ticket from the lottary. Thickets here are mostly sent in term of 30 days per post with a picture, GPS data, speed and the imposed fine.
 

sdrawkcaB

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@skd

In the first video above, I believe the first detection was from the overhead speed cameras. In the second detection, I believe you are likely correct, it was a radar detector used by the Mercedes driver putting out interfering signals.

The R3 and R7 will pick up and alert other cheaper quality detectors near by unless you turn on K Filter and Ka Filter. For example, if you have your detector set to Ka POP: on, and another driver with an Escort brand detector drives near by you, also with Ka POP enabled, you will quickly cause each others detectors to alert to Ka POP. This happens due to the local oscillators used in each detector both sweeping the Ka POP frequencies at the same time. They will detect each other's electromagnetic interference that is generated when they operate their local oscillators on the same frequency at the very same moment.

A few side notes:

I see you are running Firmware v1.46 for your detector. You should update it to v1.48. The v1.48 fixed some issues related to MRCD detection.
Fixes (v 1.48 – 01/18/2019)
  • Improved Laser falsing
  • Improved detection delay when MRCD is on
  • Red light database updated 1/4/2019
I would recommend you do the update, choose the "Recovery mode" when updating, and after updating, factory reset your detector and reconfigure all settings.

I think the K POP falses you are getting are related to interference and improper MRCD detection. I suggest you try one experiment. Try these settings:

K Filter: On
Ka Filter: On

MRCD: On

K POP: off
Ka POP: off

Now go through those same locations, and see if you get MRCD alerts when driving under those overhead cameras.
 

skd

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@sdrawkcaB, thank you for your opinion. A good point indeed, it is possible as well it came from RD interference, despite the traffic police ahead. This would help me to make quicker conclusions in future. As to the cameras there, I believe these were only traffic surveilance cams but will test them again with your suggested settings. I can't recognise true and false with Uniden for the time being and this was of great help. Upgrading to 1.48 and new tests are the next steps that I am going to do later anyway. I just wanted to test 1.46 at least for a month to see first which one of these two last firmwares would work best here. But from all that i have learned so far, I thought MRCD detection was better with 1.46 FW, wasn't it? Does K/Ka POP affect MRCD detection? I will write down your suggested settings and will try them later with 1.46 and then with 1.48. At the end of the day maybe I really should consider upgrading to FW 1.48 sooner than I was expecting and then to try different tweaks.
 
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