Max360 Odd K-band behavior... (1 Viewer)

westwind77

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This morning the R3 picked up a local running 24.193 off-axis with no visual. I ended up few vehicles behind the LEO, but they were still a fair distance in front. The R3 was between 75%-100% of strength as I followed. I powered it down and fired up the 360 just to compare. After the typical boot time it alerted....but then it would drop and go to highway, then alert to full, then drop to highway again. It acted like he was shooting I/O, where for the 2 miles before on the R3 it was C/O. I quickly swapped back to the R3 (love no boot time) and it was a constant alert, no 'I/O like' behavior. I have footage of it that I will post later tonight. Just one more reason for me to be wary of the 360, wish it was more consistent. I am waiting on the next firmware release for the R7, but have a feeling that will be in my future sooner rather than later.
 

Stoopstroop

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I have had the 360 and 360c do similar weird stuff. Seems like when a LEO is in front of me shooting forward or behind me shooting backward very weird/odd things like this happen on K and Ka band. Strong signal that drops outta nowhere and then back on again full alert. Once I get him shooting at me or so what close to my direction it operates as it should with correct ramp up and down. Must be some sorta of filter escort uses?

My R3, R7 or V1 have never done that. Whatever it is I like the constant reliable signal my other detectors give. The V1 is almost so good I can tell by the audio when I pass him.
 

InsipidMonkey

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I powered it down and fired up the 360 just to compare. After the typical boot time it alerted....but then it would drop and go to highway, then alert to full, then drop to highway again. It acted like he was shooting I/O, where for the 2 miles before on the R3 it was C/O.
We noticed the same thing during testing, where the Max360c would repeatedly lose the alert entirely while LOS with the radar source, then pick it up at full strength only to lose it again. Videos in this thread: NNJCTG - 05/08/18 Hamburg Tpke Course Ka 35.5 and X band Testing - R3, RL, Mag, Pro M, V1, 360c
 

westwind77

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We noticed the same thing during testing, where the Max360c would repeatedly lose the alert entirely while LOS with the radar source, then pick it up at full strength only to lose it again. Videos in this thread: NNJCTG - 05/08/18 Hamburg Tpke Course Ka 35.5 and X band Testing - R3, RL, Mag, Pro M, V1, 360c
I remember that testing now. I have had this happen before with a LED 'construction sign' they have down the road from me. It is a larger trailer that displays updates to road work, however it is also spewing K-band down the road as you approach. Part of me wonders if they are not 'secretly' monitoring speed on that road. Typically the 360 does well with it, however there have been a few times where the alert is significantly delayed or it has dropped out for a bit then gone back to full. The R3 is flawless every time with it though.

That being said, this is the 1st time I have experienced anything like it with a legit 'real' LEO's radar, that concerns me.
 

RoadDogg

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I remember that testing now. I have had this happen before with a LED 'construction sign' they have down the road from me. It is a larger trailer that displays updates to road work, however it is also spewing K-band down the road as you approach. Part of me wonders if they are not 'secretly' monitoring speed on that road. Typically the 360 does well with it, however there have been a few times where the alert is significantly delayed or it has dropped out for a bit then gone back to full. The R3 is flawless every time with it though.

That being said, this is the 1st time I have experienced anything like it with a legit 'real' LEO's radar, that concerns me.
I had my 360c go back to Highway mode and silent after initially alerting while in line of sight of a particular K-band speed trailer several times. It is strange because my R3 and CR97 never “lose” the signal and go back silent on that same K-band source while in line of sight. My 360c does work correctly and fine most of the time, but there are times that I question if my 360c is working as it is supposed to.


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fuelforfire87

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I had my 360c go back to Highway mode and silent after initially alerting while in line of sight of a particular K-band speed trailer several times. It is strange because my R3 and CR97 never “lose” the signal and go back silent on that same K-band source while in line of sight. My 360c does work correctly and fine most of the time, but there are times that I question if my 360c is working as it is supposed to.


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Man that's scary. I don't know if my detector has ever done this since i usually don't pay that much attention to K-Band alerts but I will have to see if my max 360 does this.
 

ron topa

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I guess I'm lucky but my 360c has never behaved erratically. I do keep a R3 for comparison and maybe need to compare it now and then just for giggles. Thanks for the news though I hope its only rare and not the norm or a bug of the future-cross all fingers mine stays alert and well.
 

poolmon

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I had my 360c go back to Highway mode and silent after initially alerting while in line of sight of a particular K-band speed trailer several times. It is strange because my R3 and CR97 never “lose” the signal and go back silent on that same K-band source while in line of sight. My 360c does work correctly and fine most of the time, but there are times that I question if my 360c is working as it is supposed to.


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The 360c uses a type of "fuzzy" logic to try filter out false K signals. It is not the liner behavior you expect to see.
It's looking for certain filter emitter/modulator parameters to try to identify the source and squelch it if possible. This is normal behavior and I've seen it in both Auto & Highway Mode to varying extents. Also, there is a remote possibility that a BSM equipped car is passing by the area that it is also having to deal with. I would expect the 360 to share this same behavior subsequent to its BSM update that was released subsequent to the 360c.
 
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westwind77

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The 360c uses a type of "fuzzy" logic to try filter out false K signals. It is not the liner behavior you expect to see.
It's looking for certain filter emitter/modulator parameters to try to identify the source and squelch it if possible. This is normal behavior and I've seen it in both Auto & Highway Mode to varying extents. Also, there is a remote possibility that a BSM equipped car is passing by the area that it is also having to deal with. I would expect the 360 to share this same behavior subsequent to its BSM update that was released subsequent to the 360c.
That is great and all....but....this was not a false....this was not a bsm.....it was a real legit threat. It was a two lane road - vehicles in front were not BSM emitters - few vehicles passed, but continued driving showed the same behavior so I would toss out any bsm interference. You can call it "fuzzy" logic...I think "drunk/buzzed/tipsy logic" might fit better based on what I saw that day.

I'm sorry but this 'behavior' of going full to no alert and back again should NOT be normal for a C/O threat, fuzzy logic or not.
 

poolmon

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I'm sorry but this 'behavior' of going full to no alert and back again should NOT be normal for a C/O threat, fuzzy logic or not.
I strongly agree.
Unfortunately as it continuously seeks to find and filter out K falses (including passing BSMs, if any, and or sample possible bounce back from other objects) its fuzzy logic tends to impart this behavior on occasion. I questioned it at first, now I'm learning to adapt in return for the extra quietness (which some may not find as important a tradeoff where they operate). Wish it were otherwise and/or the newer "military type tech" hardware filtering mentioned briefly in the Radenso video were economically deployable, which at this point seems to be still quite far off. Again, I definitely agree . . .
 

InsipidMonkey

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I'm sorry but this 'behavior' of going full to no alert and back again should NOT be normal for a C/O threat, fuzzy logic or not.
And while this excuse may apply to a K band encounter, it certainly shouldn't affect Ka band detection like it did in the testing linked above.

I can't even imagine the jumbled mess the Max series firmware must be to cause all of these issues. :oops:

122780
 

cihkal

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And while this excuse may apply to a K band encounter, it certainly shouldn't affect Ka band detection like it did in the testing linked above.

I can't even imagine the jumbled mess the Max series firmware must be to cause all of these issues. :oops:

View attachment 122780
This 100%. I was reading sections of the Escort digital patent for a bedtime-read and was thinking they must have lost themselves trying to fully utilize a FPGA. We already know their sensitivity gains in real world conditions are mostly lost, and I think it's for reasons they mention in the patent lol.

It's nice having another series of digital WS mount RDs to compare the Max series to.

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westwind77

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I questioned it at first, now I'm learning to adapt in return for the extra quietness (which some may not find as important a tradeoff where they operate).
I agree that having a quiet RD is a very nice feature, but not worth the risk of having odd detections IMO. I run the R3 @100% K and I am 'happy' with the filtering, but the Max series is better, but.....at what cost?

I have seen 'fuzy logic' referenced a number of times through threads but I do not recall ever seeing the thread that full explains it, is there one? Typically Escort keeps everything very private, did divulge the filtering secrets or methods (on their forum perhaps)?
 

Up All Night

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the Max series is better, but.....at what cost?
I can say, I know exactly where my R3’s lockouts kick in and the GT360 reacts car lengths in distance less than the R3.
Precisely why the R is my Highway detector of choice and the GT is my city auto lockout detector. I’ve seen it happen on the turnpike when I first got the GT. At PSL + 10 to 20, it will warn you but, you are hammering the brake where the R lets you leisurely take you foot off the gas most of the time.
We’ll see how the GT does after its second trip to the mother ship. Larry changed some components according to the paperwork.
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poolmon

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I have seen 'fuzy logic' referenced a number of times through threads but I do not recall ever seeing the thread that full explains it, is there one? Typically Escort keeps everything very private, did divulge the filtering secrets or methods (on their forum perhaps)?
Yes, they are extremely cryptic on how their software works. It's the members here and on ERF that coined that term "fuzzy logic" due to the lack of being able to pin down the behind the scene filtering activity.

I cannot find ER's brief comment in this regard as its buried in a thread on the ERF but he briefly touches upon the fact that when you pull into a strip mall area where you have never visited (and thus have no lockouts yet acquired), the signals get analysed in an attempt to filter possible false emitters. I have experienced this behavior myself as have some other users on both forums. If I run across the ER post I will link it, but so far I can't easily locate it as the ERF search function is a bit rough. Aside from that, the only thing we have is the operational feedback from the users.
 

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