The Official Ultimate App or no App Thread.

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InsipidMonkey

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Then why don’t they?
:iam:
Because most detectors currently on the market are designed overseas by people who don't use them and/or don't understand the US market? Or because they're designed by a committee of business executives and accountants for maximum profitability with no consideration for actual use?

Also what do you think the odds of them getting a separate screen that plugs directly into the CPU are?
99%
We are waiting for Escort GPS Patents to expire before we put out an optional display... Before the end of the year we will have something.. You will have to stay tuned.
But you already knew that, right?
Exciting news!!!! And it’s still good to have Bluetooth so you can do your updates that way.
 

Patton250

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:iam:
Because most detectors currently on the market are designed overseas by people who don't use them and/or don't understand the US market? Or because they're designed by a committee of business executives and accountants for maximum profitability with no consideration for actual use?


99%

But you already knew that, right?
I didn’t know it. I’ve heard speculation. I’m getting a little impatient with it actually. I was hoping this thread might spread some more insight as to the possibility. After all rumors are different and facts
 

STS-134

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Mike V would never pay Escort a dime in royalties (if Escort would even give him a license), so we won't see GPS or BT in a V1 in the near future.
Except I've never believed in using GPS speed for suppressing alerts, period. Too many RD manufacturers have relied on GPS as a crutch for too long. There are some legit uses of GPS (eliminating alerts from speed signs) but literally everything else from door openers to BSMs should be done by looking at the type of incoming signal, independent of speed. If the only reason you're not getting falses from the door opener at the convenience store is that you're driving past at 30 mph, what happens if there's a freeway next to the same store and you're on that instead of the frontage road?

It also follows that neither apps nor GPS should be required to suppress false alarms EXCEPT from things like speed signs.
 

BlueV1

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Troll= a person or people that disagree with BlueV1

I’m sick your your name calling. I have every right to discuss why I feel the V1 sucks and is antiquated. The fact that you disagree with me doesn’t qualify me as a troll. Now knock it off.
We can use a different term for it if you want. I said, "Like a troll" and "trollish comments" as a convenient shorthand for behaviors that we all generally know. Those behaviors being the act of entering a calm thread and posting inflammatory or controversial stuff in order to elicit a response. Or, possibly, just to be a jerk to others.

Take it how you want. I wasn't calling you a name and I'm a little surprise that the mention of "troll" upsets you so much. You are "sick" of me saying something I've hardly ever said here? How does that possibly trigger you?
You've been classifying and attacking a group here with a certain level of prejudice. Your actions speak for themselves.

I didn't join RDF to be a V1 fanboy as we have previously discussed and I've clarified many times. I honestly did not expect that there would be people who would try to pigeon-hole me into a group they despised simply because I owned a particular product.

So, having said that, what else do you have to say? Did you truly stop at the top of my previous post or do you have more?

I can appreciate that you feel a certain way about the V1, and I have asked that you be responsible to the forum and not say stuff that is incorrect if you know that it's incorrect. You'd probably ask the same of me if I was clearly saying stuff that was incorrect about something you had knowledge of. That doesn't make you "defensive" if you would attempt to correct me.

:offtopic:
If for example, the general consensus is that apps tie up your phone and alerts interrupt phone calls or change music volumes permanently and that sort of stuff, It's not true. Those that haven't experienced it have no way to know since you have to have the hardware to try it out. It's not "defensive" of those that know to say, "no, that doesn't happen".
 

InsipidMonkey

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Except I've never believed in using GPS speed for suppressing alerts, period. Too many RD manufacturers have relied on GPS as a crutch for too long. There are some legit uses of GPS (eliminating alerts from speed signs) but literally everything else from door openers to BSMs should be done by looking at the type of incoming signal, independent of speed. If the only reason you're not getting falses from the door opener at the convenience store is that you're driving past at 30 mph, what happens if there's a freeway next to the same store and you're on that instead of the frontage road?

It also follows that neither apps nor GPS should be required to suppress false alarms EXCEPT from things like speed signs.
I agree.

I think GPS lockouts can be implemented safely and effectively though. AFAIK, most K band door openers use a CW modulated signal so I'm not sure how you'd be able to distinguish it from police radar.

@Jon at Radenso Have you been able to record the signal from any K band door openers? It would be really interesting to see how it compares to a K band gun.
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I didn’t know it. I’ve heard speculation. I’m getting a little impatient with it actually. I was hoping this thread might spread some more insight as to the possibility. After all rumors are different and facts
I'd hardly consider posts from BRD speculation. If he says they're working on it, why would you think otherwise? Unfortunately, impatience isn't going to get Escort's patents to run out any faster. Since an add-on display doesn't really have anything to do with an app, the conversation should probably be continued in that thread.
 
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Jon at Radenso

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@Jon at Radenso Have you been able to record the signal from any K band door openers? It would be really interesting to see how it compares to a K band gun.
Yes, current detectors will have no way to distinguish it from a police gun. It's not like BSM which is obviously different.
 

Patton250

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We can use a different term for it if you want. I said, "Like a troll" and "trollish comments" as a convenient shorthand for behaviors that we all generally know. Those behaviors being the act of entering a calm thread and posting inflammatory or controversial stuff in order to elicit a response. Or, possibly, just to be a jerk to others.

Take it how you want. I wasn't calling you a name and I'm a little surprise that the mention of "troll" upsets you so much. You are "sick" of me saying something I've hardly ever said here? How does that possibly trigger you?
You've been classifying and attacking a group here with a certain level of prejudice. Your actions speak for themselves.

I didn't join RDF to be a V1 fanboy as we have previously discussed and I've clarified many times. I honestly did not expect that there would be people who would try to pigeon-hole me into a group they despised simply because I owned a particular product.

So, having said that, what else do you have to say? Did you truly stop at the top of my previous post or do you have more?

I can appreciate that you feel a certain way about the V1, and I have asked that you be responsible to the forum and not say stuff that is incorrect if you know that it's incorrect. You'd probably ask the same of me if I was clearly saying stuff that was incorrect about something you had knowledge of. That doesn't make you "defensive" if you would attempt to correct me.

:offtopic:
If for example, the general consensus is that apps tie up your phone and alerts interrupt phone calls or change music volumes permanently and that sort of stuff, It's not true. Those that haven't experienced it have no way to know since you have to have the hardware to try it out. It's not "defensive" of those that know to say, "no, that doesn't happen".
I’m not upset with the word troll. I am merely pointing it out because I have been issued points for a lot less than that. Not to mention since you guys all have swarmed in here and flipped out I’m sure the moderators are watching this thread like hocks ready to pounce. So let’s just not throw accusations OK? Anyway just out of curiosity why do you think that the Uniden guys don’t rush in and flip out on me when I criticize that their detectors are horrible and laser detection? Also don’t you notice my fellow ALP and NetRadar guys don’t jump in and flip out on me when I criticize it’s app? We just discuss it. You know it’s not like I’m talking smack about products I don’t own.
 

STS-134

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I agree.

I think GPS lockouts can be implemented safely and effectively though. AFAIK, most K band door openers use a CW modulated signal so I'm not sure how you'd be able to distinguish it from police radar.

@Jon at Radenso Have you been able to record the signal from any K band door openers? It would be really interesting to see how it compares to a K band gun.
Something tells me it's gotta be slightly different. One is designed to measure speed via Doppler shifts, and the other is designed to measure distance. Unmodulated CW RADAR cannot measure distance, so...
 

InsipidMonkey

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Something tells me it's gotta be slightly different. One is designed to measure speed via Doppler shifts, and the other is designed to measure distance. Unmodulated CW RADAR cannot measure distance, so...
Automatic door sensors don't need to measure distance though, they just need to detect motion (eg speed) which is easily done with a CW signal.
 

BlueV1

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So let’s just not throw accusations OK?
You spent half a post trying to draw comparisons to Miley Cyrus and her level of intelligence and I'm not the only one you've done this to.

You also like to post stuff like this: (Not that I'm saying it, but this is the kind of posts you make.)
"Sore Loser = Patton250 when he doesn't like what you have to say and can't apologize."

Eventually, when you get backed into a corner, you pull out the "Only my Wife can reprimand me" card. You need some new material!

With all of the accusations and disdain you show towards those specifically that run V1's for whatever reason they choose, what is one or two potential accusations aimed your direction? It's a drop in the bucket. Deal with it like a man.

Now, if you want to continue to talk about apps in a constructive manner without trying to tell us in emotional terms how you feel about V1's at every opportunity; that might be good. Can't we do that?


Couple of more screenshots from this morning. Those little red and orange dots on the road represent locations where I have personally detected K and Ka signals in the last 30 days.
 

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Yes, "a little battery for GPS".... And "a little battery" for using CPU, and "a little battery" for using Bluetooth ;-) All of which adds up and all of which is not something that person like me who doesn't want to deal with cable mess inside the car and does not charge the phone inside the car wants to happen to my phone.
The bulk is the GPS. The rest is noise and already in use. I never shut Bluetooth off. I'd tell folks if you commute is less than say 30 minutes you'll probably be fine. Any longer, yeah you would want to have power for your phone. I like having the option of charging your phone in car. How many cars don't have a cigarette lighter socket? I buy these really .5 meter cables so it stays tidy.

I actually have wireless dock in one car and CarPlay in the other that needs to be plugged in to get all the bells and whistles, which is well worth it.

Does this look like a cable mess to anyone? There is nothing on my windshield either, not even an ezpass. It's all in the execution ;)

33655873798_7d0664ef9e_h_d.jpg
 
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Patton250

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You spent half a post trying to draw comparisons to Miley Cyrus and her level of intelligence and I'm not the only one you've done this to.

You also like to post stuff like this: (Not that I'm saying it, but this is the kind of posts you make.)
"Sore Loser = Patton250 when he doesn't like what you have to say and can't apologize."

Eventually, when you get backed into a corner, you pull out the "Only my Wife can reprimand me" card. You need some new material!

With all of the accusations and disdain you show towards those specifically that run V1's for whatever reason they choose, what is one or two potential accusations aimed your direction? It's a drop in the bucket. Deal with it like a man.

Now, if you want to continue to talk about apps in a constructive manner without trying to tell us in emotional terms how you feel about V1's at every opportunity; that might be good. Can't we do that?


Couple of more screenshots from this morning. Those little red and orange dots on the road represent locations where I have personally detected K and Ka signals in the last 30 days.
Lmao

I seriously don’t know what to say at this point with you. I literally deal with thousands of people a year and I’ve never come across somebody like you. I think we should just ignore each other. I’ll take care of that right now.

I will continue to give my opinions on a product that I own. If you don’t like that I highly recommend you take my advice above.

See ya
 

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Absolutely not. The app on a phone screen is controlled by a Bluetooth connection, which is not reliable, and can go down for many different reasons, including BT driver bugs, BT/WLAN coexistence issues, etc. Plus the phone's OS can crash and leave you unprotected. I have seen so many Bluetooth coexistence issues when I was working for Atheros that I just do not trust Bluetooth, nor do I trust any phone's OS. It's not just the BT driver, ANY of the manufacturers of any of the components in the phone could have a buggy driver, and since those drivers are part of the kernel, any crash in the driver code takes down the entire OS (typically this manifests itself as the device appearing to "freeze" and then rebooting itself when the watchdog timer finally fires). Your phone could have been running just fine for months, and then you install some update with a buggy driver that only crashes under a very specific set of conditions, and then your phone bites the dust.
I agree this can happen. But iOS has never crashed, rebooted itself or hung, nor has Bluetooth failed. But I have had my share of bugs (as well as 3rd party library bugs).
I designed the code to be as failsafe as possible in the event the phone/app/bluetooth fails. The worst that will happen is, it will "fail" to mute.
Android has crashed, hung and corrupted Bluetooth drivers, requiring reboots. This varies a lot by phone manufacturers.
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I have owned the detector with auto lockouts. They worked great for me, never had issue with those. Plus nobody restricts detector manufacturers from adding more processing power and memory (sure it will increase the price but for GENERAL CONSUMERS who buy the detector, turn it on and start using it without downloading any apps this would be worth doing, and the radar detector company could always release cheaper and less powerful version without GPS and display for nerds who like to spend hours adjusting settings in the app or want the app to do everything).

As for "it can go wrong" - sure it can, but so can using the app. Here is what "can go wrong" with app, making your detector an unusable annoyance due to all false signals:

1)Bluetooth dongle failure on detector itself
2)Bluetooth hardware failure on smartphone
3) New OS update causing Bluetooth connection issues (I can find many examples on Reddit, just because YOU got lucky and never experienced this doesn't mean that others won't)
4) Google releasing API or OS update which would do stuff like restricting the GPS sensor polling rate for all apps to decrease battery consumption
5) You accidentally damage your phone or lose it or you discharge its battery with no ability to recharge it even inside the car
And so on. None of those issues would have any affect on GPS-based auto lockouts built into detector itself.
As I mentioned, the worst that will happen is it will fail to mute if dongle failed. I've never heard of one failing in the middle of using it. But some have failed, often when switch to a new phone due to firmware bug that V1 takes care of for free. If the app/bt/phone fail it just goes back to being a not as smart V1.

New OS with new restrictions should not break apps that follow the rules they were developed under. On both iOS and Android you target a particular OS Version range and you have to follow the rules for that range. New releases are not allowed to change the rules on the older versions of the OS. It's a lot of work dealing with all this. On occasion an OS might have a "cut off" that they won't support X feature going forward. Often due to security concerns. Also API's get deprecated all the time. If you, the developer, continue ignoring the warnings that some API is deprecated you will eventually get burned.

So if an app suddenly stops working due to an OS update, it's often poor development workmanship. Even if that does happen an "actively" developed product should fix it promptly. It is a moving target and there are always bugs and needs constant attention. If development did stop it should run for good while if reasonably developed. But it will cease to run eventually.

My comments cover all your bullets.
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Did folks miss reading @xydrine concerns of being more friendly towards your brothers?

Can't believe how many bantering posts I had to go through to read all the "technical" posts in this thread.
 
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DrHow

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Yes, current detectors will have no way to distinguish it from a police gun. It's not like BSM which is obviously different.
Maybe today that is the case. In old Cincinnati Microwave days, and early VR days, X band door opener patterns were recorded. And signatures created to match them in the field. At one point progress was made with this. Like AB signatures, was hard to keep up. However, with the Motorola 68000 series being used at one point, that work continued with k band door openers. The full logic mode on V1 as I saw the oscilloscopes output, the sample lab openers were being processed, not just filters or sensitivity reductions. Over time, they either lost interest in this, or the mass quantity of door openers got the better of the V1.

If I remember The V1 was the first to process the Ohio based “white box bots” on the highway streetlights and signs that pushed out those dog whistle signals that kicked off every detector in Ohio. It was more than a notch filter. It looked at the signal patten itself, as I recall. The X band K band door opener work predate your history in the field. Possible the first boys in Ohio did too.

I believe there is a way to still do signature/behavior based checking. Even if it pushed today’s RD price from $399, to $1199 (which is $299-$399 adjusted for inflation back then). I still think some real out of the box thinking needs to happen. Like you have been saying in the last video, and in here for a long time.

Once LEO (R and L, +whatever else is coming) detectors can become more functional, as a sensor for a system, and a single appliance, sales to newer market will grow. They can become that (mostly) legal “stick it to the man” device that can be counted on again.

Some users will want sensors, and top flight threat/awareness display like a glass panel in a car or plane. Or, they will want a discrete appliance all functions built in.
 

Jon at Radenso

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Maybe today that is the case. In old Cincinnati Microwave days, and early VR days, X band door opener patterns were recorded. And signatures created to match them in the field.
We already did that, the proliferation of cheap high quality K band emitters changed everything. The emitter in most doors is the same as a cheap bushnell baseball gun and the same as a police grade version of it. It's just like how all the dash cams nowadays are using the same sensors. They are all commodities, why bother making something custom when you can just buy an off the shelf component.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying that current radar detectors can't do it and that there is very little signal differences between door openers and a police gun, even when recorded in 30msps with custom built equipment that costs many tens of thousands of dollars.
 

DrHow

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The bulk is the GPS. The rest is noise and already in use. I never shut Bluetooth off. I'd tell folks if you commute is less than say 30 minutes you'll probably be fine. Any longer, yeah you would want to have power for your phone. I like having the option of charging your phone in car. How many cars don't have a cigarette lighter socket? I buy these really .5 meter cables so it stays tidy.

I actually have wireless dock in one car and CarPlay in the other that needs to be plugged in to get all the bells and whistles, which is well worth it.

Does this look like a cable mess to anyone? There is nothing on my windshield either, not even an ezpass. It's all in the execution ;)

View attachment 122013
Can’t wait to get mine. New self drive CPUs are supposed to be shipping soon. I like the mount. Have you tried the wireless charger add on mount available from Tesla? I do not think I will miss the HUD in the G90.
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We already did that, the proliferation of cheap high quality K band emitters changed everything. The emitter in most doors is the same as a cheap bushnell baseball gun and the same as a police grade version of it. It's just like how all the dash cams nowadays are using the same sensors. They are all commodities, why bother making something custom when you can just buy an off the shelf component.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying that current radar detectors can't do it and that there is very little signal differences between door openers and a police gun, even when recorded in 30msps with custom built equipment that costs many tens of thousands of dollars.
Yea, same page related to “current” RD. The k band work first done with what was very fast for its day 68000 in the V1 seemed to be effective (full logic mode) for a time. I understand the garage door openers, door openers and what not are more stable transmitter with less “pattern” to see than old days. I believe chips today could work this. I also believe, like red light cams, a auto reporting from the field database system can keep tabs on the false emitters. I don’t know if that would get in the way of the VR latest approved patents.

I don’t have time right now to sit down and think disruptive in this space (wish I did). Someone who is/are committed (and in this CM and/or in RF/tech ecosystems) to do this will change things up. Otherwise, why would anyone hire domestic engineers, or think of bringing production back to the states if it is hopeless? :)
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@BlueV1 thanks for the mention. I do think there are two main schools of thought on this topic. Choice is good. For me, some days I want fire and forget appliance as a sensor and presentation.

Other days, I would prefer great sensors, with a high res, high sensory experience. That can only come from a application processing external presentation devices. From smart glasses, to glass panels on cars, to smart phones and tablets, to HUD. We are not there yet with all of this. Transport and logical layers are solved through smart sensors, communication methods, and presentation layer. A more enriched and possible effective result is available this way.

Other days, I seek for the needs of the moment a all in one appliance.
 
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Patton250

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Enough of the BS. And you said it yourself, "As far as the bantering goes it’s over." So no more. None. This is your warning.
I agree this can happen. But iOS has never crashed, rebooted itself or hung, nor has Bluetooth failed. But I have had my share of bugs (as well as 3rd party library bugs).
I designed the code to be as failsafe as possible in the event the phone/app/bluetooth fails. The worst that will happen is, it will "fail" to mute.
Android has crashed, hung and corrupted Bluetooth drivers, requiring reboots. This varies a lot by phone manufacturers.
Post automatically merged:


As I mentioned, the worst that will happen is it will fail to mute if dongle failed. I've never heard of one failing in the middle of using it. But some have failed, often when switch to a new phone due to firmware bug that V1 takes care of for free. If the app/bt/phone fail it just goes back to being a not as smart V1.

New OS with new restrictions should not break apps that follow the rules they were developed under. On both iOS and Android you target a particular OS Version range and you have to follow the rules for that range. New releases are not allowed to change the rules on the older versions of the OS. It's a lot of work dealing with all this. On occasion an OS might have a "cut off" that they won't support X feature going forward. Often due to security concerns. Also API's get deprecated all the time. If you, the developer, continue ignoring the warnings that some API is deprecated you will eventually get burned.

So if an app suddenly stops working due to an OS update, it's often poor development workmanship. Even if that does happen an "actively" developed product should fix it promptly. It is a moving target and there are always bugs and needs constant attention. If development did stop it should run for good while if reasonably developed. But it will cease to run eventually.

My comments cover all your bullets.
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Did folks miss reading @xydrine concerns of being more friendly towards your brothers?

Can't believe how many bantering posts I had to go through to read all the "technical" posts in this thread.
Of course but let’s make sure we draw his attention anyway. Oh never mind you already did. You could just report the post you don’t like you know? Seems to be popular of late.

As far as the bantering goes it’s over. Thanks
 

LouG

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I like the juxtaposition of this thread and the third party app thread.
I've used YaV1 and JBV1. JBV1 is groundbreaking, nothing offers what it does in one, simple package. Not even the multi thousand dollar remote units.
If you don't want to use an app that's fine, but don't resort to specious and uninformed justifications for not doing so.
Just accept you're a Luddite and be proud.
 

xydrine

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Of course but let’s make sure we draw his attention anyway. Oh never mind you already did. You could just report the post you don’t like you know? Seems to be popular of late.
Cut. It. Out.

And please don't PM me about your warning. I'm not discussing/arguing this with you.

As far as the bantering goes it’s over. Thanks
You said it yourself - it's over. I don't want to hear any more of it between anyone here.

Everyone, GROW UP. I'm not going to say it again. Really, I'm done with this. This is your warning. This is IT.

If you don't want to use an app that's fine, but don't resort to specious and uninformed justifications for not doing so.
Just accept you're a Luddite and be proud.
Exactly. If you don't want to use the app, FINE - GREAT, don't use it - just move along and let those who enjoy it, ENJOY IT.

Keep this thread clean and on track. Thank you.
 

Patton250

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Cut. It. Out.

And please don't PM me about your warning. I'm not discussing/arguing this with you.



You said it yourself - it's over. I don't want to hear any more of it between anyone here.

Everyone, GROW UP. I'm not going to say it again. Really, I'm done with this. This is your warning. This is IT.



Exactly. If you don't want to use the app, FINE - GREAT, don't use it - just move along and let those who enjoy it, ENJOY IT.

Keep this thread clean and on track. Thank you.
Nothing for BlueV1?? I see. Ok.
 
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