Laser Jammer Shootout: ALP vs. Escort ShifterMax vs. Stinger Fiber vs. TMG vs. K40 Defuser Optix vs. Adaptiv TPX

Vortex

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So this weekend I had a chance to go out and do a massive lidar shootout, testing all the different top laser jammers against all the top lidar guns.

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Laser Jammer Lineup:

AntiLaser Priority: 3 Regular Heads (5.5.5 / 8.4)
AntiLaser Priority: 2 Regular Heads + 1 Tx (5.5.5 / 8.4)
Escort ShifterMax Triple (1.10)
TMG Alpha-15 Triple (8.05)
K40 Defuser Optix Triple (Original firmware version, no updates yet released)
Stinger Fiber Triple (VIP 4.6.00UK, Laser Center 3.1.0)
Adaptiv TPX Motorcycle Laser Jammer Dual (will be officially announced this week, original firmware since no updates yet released)

All laser jammers are production jammers running the latest public firmware.

I also did some comparison testing with and without the removable perspex covers to see if they made a difference.

Here's a look at my grill (almost) fully loaded with jammers. (The center Stinger fiber pair were previously in the center slot where the center K40 is located in this pic.)

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Full disclosure: Some of the jammers were provided from the manufacturers for free for testing (Escort, Stinger, TMG, Adaptiv), some I purchased retail (ALP, K40), and some (Escort) covered the costs for installing their jammers onto my vehicle. All the jammers were installed as close as possible to the manufacturer's recommended areas, though sometimes very slight adjustments were made for the sake of realworld practicality. All the heads were aligned as best as possible according to the manufacturer's recommended specifications. No laser jammer manufacturer was present on site, but most were available over the phone or email for support as needed. Every jammer was otherwise tested in the same manner to keep a level playing field and all the results, good and bad, are all shared here based on how the jammers performed.

Laser Guns:

DragonEye SpeedLidar (Apr '16 build date, recertified with late model firmware) (Provided by @Jag42)
DragonEye SpeedLidar #2 (unfortunately died shortly into testing, originally a Laser Ally, recertified with recent SpeedLidar firmware) (Provided by @Jon at Radenso)
DragonEye Compact (Jan '18 build date) (Provided by @RaggedEdge)
LTI TruSpeed S (Provided by @Jag42)
Stalker XLR (Provided by @RaggedEdge)
Kustom ProLaser III (Provided by @Vortex)

All laser guns run with ECCM / Jammer Rejection enabled.

The test course was ~1200 ft long or so.

A ton of people showed up to the test and so we had a chance to do testing not only on my car, but also on their cars which was awesome because we got to try out a whole bunch of additional jammer / vehicle combos. Also a massive thank you to everyone who came out to the test and helped! It was a TON of work (we met up at 9:30am and testing didn't finish until 8pm) and I couldn't have done it without you all!

Now I'd like to work on an updated "best laser jammer" type comparison so for this post, I'm not going to go into a ton of additional detail about my thoughts on the jammers. Since most all you guys are familiar with these jammers already, here I'm going to focus on the test results and what we saw. I'll go over the jammers in order from worst to best.

#6 K40 Defuser Optix

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The K40 was IPT to both DragonEyes we tested with. In fact it didn't alert whatsoever. K40 does specifically state that their jammers are capable of jamming the DragonEye. Maybe this applies to other older versions of the gun, but I haven't been able to verify this claim myself. Every other jammer tested was able to both detect and jam (to some extent) both guns. K40 gave no alert whatsoever.

Update: @PY004 recently tested a set of Defuser Optix duals and against the different DragonEye Compact he tested with, it was able to jam down to 150 ft CM. It was essentially IPT on the headlights though. Here are his test results. So the good news is that K40 does the the ability to detect and jam certain versions of the DE, but I wouldn't say it offers a proper level of protection.

Anyway, against the PL3 it did just fine.

Against more medium difficult guns like the XLR and TSS, it struggled as well.

Since the K40 testing was going faster than expected since it wasn't alerting to the DragonEyes, we tried a few other things with the extra time.

For example, we tried a quick pass turning off ECCM on the DETC and without the anti-jamming capabilities, the K40 was able to go JTG. Additionally, @meismyname pulled out his Ultralyte 100 LR and luckily for K40, it was able to jam that older gun too just like the PL3.

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So K40 comes in dead last, struggling against both the XLR and TSS and being the only gun to neither alert to nor jam either DragonEye gun.

#5 Escort ShifterMax (connected to the Max Ci 360)

Now Escort's latest jammers were giving me some unexpected issues and once I started seeing weird things, I stopped testing and gave them a call to start sorting things out. First up, here's the initial batch of results:

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Lots of PT's with the DragonEyes as well as with the TSS. The only full JTG run I was able to get was with the PL3. Additionally the jammer was reporting most every shot as a rear alert, even though I'm only running front jammers and all the DIP switches, including for jammer 3 (front) and jammer head 4 (unused), were set to front. I tried switching all the DIP switches from front to rear and back to front in case any of them weren't fully in the front position, but no luck. I tried running ports 3 and 4 as if they were rear jammers, but I still couldn't get front alerts to show up as front alerts. I thought maybe something weird was going on and only certain heads were firing, like maybe only what it thought were the "rear" head(s), and that could be part of the reason for all the PT's.

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I gave Escort a call and they said they'd never seen this before. They suggested I do a factory reset and then give the system about 10 minutes to sit idle for the heads to communicate to the system. We did that over our lunch break. Once lunch was done, I configured all my settings again, but when we resumed testing, I continued to see the jammer alert as rear. Going through the rest of the test, I noticed this issue seemed to happen primarily with the DragonEye guns. The other guns, with the exception of one or two runs, all alerted as front. It was all very weird and I have no idea what was going on.

Anyway, here are the results after the factory reset and throwing out the original set of runs.

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Again, still struggling against the DE. It was good against the PL3 and XLR, but it struggled against the TSS which is a gun that most every modern jammer should be able to handle at this point.

Now Escort is working on updated firmware to improve DragonEye jamming capabilities. They were hoping to have it available before my test, as was I, because I always want to test the latest and greatest from everyone. It would stink to have a new firmware update be released the day after I finish testing, you know? They said their next update won't be out for a while so the timing didn't work out. So I wasn't expecting perfect DE jamming capabilities, but I was expecting better performance against the TSS.

Either way, given some of the strange directional issues I saw, I can't say with certainty that the Escort system was operating and jamming properly in the first place. Nevertheless, the results are the results.

Update: Escort has followed up with their engineers and confirmed that against certain versions of the DragonEye, the Max Ci 360 will report the wrong direction. Hopefully this bug is fixed in a future firmware update.

#4 TMG Alpha-15

Next up, here are the results from the TMG:

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We were getting some long distance PT's with the TMG. With everything I'd read on the forums, I was expecting it to jam down to about 300 feet or so, but we had PT's up to nearly 1,000 feet away. The total length of the test course, depending on when I first get shot, is only around 1,200 feet.

We were all pretty disappointed in these results.

I talked to @Jag42 about it and he suggested that it could perform better with the outer heads pushed out closer to my headlights like this:

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I suppose that could help, especially given the limited sensitivity of the TMG heads compared to the ALP and others. However, TMG's longest PT of the day was at CM and I don't think that moving the two heads even farther away from the center would have helped fully solve the issues that I saw. Maybe on a smaller car or with an added 4th head it would have performed better.

The TMG was fully JTG against the PL3, TSS, and XLR which is awesome, so it performed better than the Escort and K40, but on my vehicle it did not provide adequate protection against the DE.

#3 Adaptiv TPX Motorcycle Jammer

Next up is a new motorcycle-specific jammer that's going to be announced this week. It's not meant for automotive usage so to simulate testing on a motorcycle, I put both heads on either side of the top of my plate and ran it as a set of duals, only targeting the front plate. Here's what we saw:

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Looking pretty good here! JTG against the PL3, XLR, and TSS. Also able to jam the DETC down to close range. It did struggle against the late model DESL, but was able to still go against it better than I expected, especially considering it's only running two heads and every other system tested was configured as a set of triples. (@meismyname has an ALP dual with two regular heads and without a third head or a Tx head, the ALP was fully IPT the whole length of the course, so that is very impressive for a dual head setup.)

Since it was doing so well, for grins we decided to also test the headlights.

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Impressively, it was still able to JTG the PL3. Again, the two heads were both right on the front plate and nowhere near the headlights. It did start to struggle against the TSS, but that's understandable here. Interestingly, against the DragonEye, it did better with a set of duals than the TMG did with a set of triples with two of its heads up near the headlights...

Out of curiosity we also tried to run the system against the DESL with one head, something I doubt any jammer can do successfully. As expected, it wasn't great, but we were curious. :p

Either way, this is looking to be an impressive jammer so far, especially considering it was only set up with two heads. There is an option to run a third head for the rear of a bike. I asked about running it up front, but they said the system isn't designed to be used on a car with three heads up front like that so we skipped testing that.

This system will retail for $550 and should be available very soon. I'll share some more information about this jammer including the interface and design soon as well.

#2 Stinger Fiber Jammers

Stinger just released their next gen jammers with teeny tiny fibers for both the Tx and Rx sides.

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Unlike their previous gen jammers, this is the first one I've tested that actually performs as advertised. Check out the results...

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With the Stinger, yeah it is able to jam even the DragonEye. Now you'll notice there are some PT's. With this setup, like with other jammers, we found that proper alignment of the heads is really important in order for it to work properly. Stinger recommends that the heads are mounted perfectly straight, but with a 5 degree tilt up. (Anywhere between 0-10 degrees up is fine. You just want to avoid any angling down.) At first we tried taping the heads to my grill directly using duct tape, but that didn't give us the solid fit and angle we were wanting. @meismyname thought up the idea to cut up some of the foam the Stinger ships with and mount the heads into the foam itself. That actually worked pretty well.

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We secured the foam with doublestick tape and zip ties. That wasn't perfect, but it worked way better.

Now while we were testing, sometimes we saw some odd PT's. When we went back to go check on the heads in that area, we noticed that the foam had shifted a bit. Once we realigned the heads again, it was JTG.

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We did this head alignment with both a 288' PHL PT with the PL3 and a 700' CM PT with the TSS. Once we adjusted the heads, JTG. To make it easier to see head alignment, we eventually wound up sticking the tips of the heads out of the foam about a centimeter. We didn't try adjusting the heads with the DESL runs, but based on what I've been able to see with my quick testing install, this system looks like the real deal. Significantly better than their previous gen jammers. Great work Stinger!

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#1 AntiLaser Priority

and finally, coming down to the most effective jammer, again the AntiLaser Priority wins. Not a huge surprise. That said, I was honestly pretty worried about this. It's the first time I've tested my car and my heads are recessed slightly. It was a decision that I made with my installers and it was a bit of a gamble. To make it look halfway decent, especially once you add perspex covers in front of the heads, we tucked them back ever so slightly.

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Now I'm not going to lie, I was starting to lose a little sleep about this the night before the test. Would my install prevent the jammers from working properly? That's great that we could learn about the impacts of recessed heads, but it wouldn't allow the ALP, TMG, or Escort to perform at their best. I guess I'd have to drive back down to Portland again to get my setup tweaked. There'd be other people at the test without recessed heads so I could compare to their results, plus maybe my rears would perform better and they're not tucked back the same way so that would tell us more too. Those were my thoughts of how I could work around any issues that could arise with recessed heads.

For my center jammer cluster, I've got both a regular ALP head and a Tx head. Which one would perform better? Would I get better results with the regular head, given its additional receiver and the added detection capabilities? The Tx head should perform better against the DE, but I don't see that gun around here. What would I lose against standard guns?

Well, here are the results with the 3 regular heads:

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Mostly JTG, and a couple close range PT's against the DE. All things considered, I'm impressed to see how it fared without a Tx head!

Switching the center head to a Tx sensor, here's what I saw:

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Much better performance against the DragonEye and still JTG elsewhere.

Now that said, I did have a very strange 480' PT with the PL3. We were all very confused about that and wondered if it was a power supply issue on the gun. The gun is a cig. lighter powered gun and I had it plugged into a USB battery pack with a USB to cig. lighter adapter. We plugged it in to @Panic's 12v cig. lighter and tried again. JTG. Was it a power supply issue? Was it just a random PT? I don't know. Either way, that's the only time we saw that.

Moving on to the Perspex testing, since the 2 Reg + 1 Tx sensor setup worked better, I covered my heads with Perspex and here's what I saw:

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Switching over to the rears, 2 Reg + 1 Tx and also covered in Perspex, here's the results:

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Testing with the ALP is kind of boring. It performs so well that it's just one pass after another with no gun able to get a reading. I guess there's a reason that most everyone here runs one. :p

I was just glad to see that my install worked well, even with the heads slightly recessed, as well as when covered up with Perspex.


So those are the results of our testing.

Thanks so much for everyone who supplied equipment, as well as to everyone who came out including @meismyname, @Ctse, @Partybot, @Panic, @RaptorALP, and @Jon at Radenso! (Note: Jon was in town for a training and came by to hang out during the testing, but he did not shoot any guns or drive any cars. He was just there to spectate. Stinger wanted to come too to help position the heads on my car, but it didn't work out timing-wise.) Thanks to the laser jammer manufacturers for being available for troubleshooting and questions as well! That was also super helpful. Finally, thanks to Musicar Northwest for helping me out with this killer install! Finally getting to see how it performs, I'm now even more pumped about it. :)
 
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tempnexus

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:awesome:

Thank you

With all of them turned on you could offer a mobile Lasix surgery.
 

Vortex

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We had a bunch of people show up to help with testing which was awesome. It was super helpful for me to have a bunch of people help, plus we had a chance to test out their vehicles which was great for them, plus it means additional data and information for us. Here's a look at the vehicles and test results.

@RaptorALP's Tesla Model S P100D, ALP 2 Rx + 1 Tx Front

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His front heads are definitely not recessed. :) We were a bit surprised to see some PT's with the DETC. It's been a few days so I don't remember exactly what he was going to do, but I'm sure he'd want to tweak a bit and ensure his heads are straight and level.

Here's the rear:

@RaptorALP's Tesla Model S P100D, ALP 2 Rx + 1 Tx Rear

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His rear heads do need a little adjustment. The left rear head does look a little toed out and pointed up. With some tweaking there, things should improve.

@Partybot's CTS-V Wagon, ALP 3 Regular Front

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Pretty solid and impressive here, with no Tx heads even!

@Partybot's CTS-V Wagon, ALP 2 Rx + 1 Tx Rear

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Pretty solid in the rear too.

@Partybot's Volvo Wagon, ALP 2 Regular

@Partybot also brought his Volvo wagon with ALP Duals.

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I need a little clarification on the results and then I'll post those up.

@meismyname's BMW 330xi, ALP 2 Regular

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We started testing here and he was going IPT, full lock the whole time, against the DESL. He was running old firmware so we updated to 5.5.5 and...

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Still IPT against the DESL with the latest firmware. Compact was better. We also saw one strange long distance PT with the TSS, but otherwise JTG the whole rest of the course. So pretty good against the XLR and TSS, but 3 heads would be required for optimal DE jamming.

@Ctse's Dodge Durango, ALP 3 Regular Front

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Another very good showing with ALP triples!

So the ALP is not 100% bulletproof, especially if the heads are a little off or you're running duals instead of triples, but it can definitely offer solid performance with a proper install pretty consistently which I love.
 
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Jag42

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Thank yall for all the hard work ! Nice presentation.
 

synistyr

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Great testing, as always.

Did you post a pic of your rear setup and I missed it?

For the Stinger.. how is anyone supposed to measure a whole 5 degrees of angle on them anyway? (also, would they more susceptible to road ice/salt/calcium chloride or dirt coverage?)
 

Jon at Radenso

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Great testing, as always.

Did you post a pic of your rear setup and I missed it?

For the Stinger.. how is anyone supposed to measure a whole 5 degrees of angle on them anyway? (also, would they more susceptible to road ice/salt/calcium chloride or dirt coverage?)
His install is super nice, the perspex covers really hide the rear install well.

Leveling the Stingers is going to be a real issue for dealers, I can't even get most dealers to properly install ALP when it comes to leveling those heads.
 

Vortex

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Great testing, as always.

Did you post a pic of your rear setup and I missed it?

For the Stinger.. how is anyone supposed to measure a whole 5 degrees of angle on them anyway? (also, would they more susceptible to road ice/salt/calcium chloride or dirt coverage?)
I'll grab a shot of the rear and post it real quick.

As for the Stinger install, I honestly have no idea how people are going to install them. Stinger suggested that I install them under my headlight in the panel gap between the headlight and the panel. I'd have to take my car apart to do that and then we'd have to figure out a way to drill and mount the heads into place there. Maybe we're better off drilling a tiny hole directly into the body somewhere? Here's what they show on their website:

120340
 

Jon at Radenso

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I'll grab a shot of the rear and post it real quick.

As for the Stinger install, I honestly have no idea how people are going to install them. Stinger suggested that I install them under my headlight in the panel gap between the headlight and the panel. I'd have to take my car apart to do that and then we'd have to figure out a way to drill and mount the heads into place there. Maybe we're better off drilling a tiny hole directly into the body somewhere? Here's what they show on their website:

View attachment 120340
The bigger issue is as we saw, if they aren't absolutely perfect you get PT with easy guns like PL3 and TSS. Which means if you drill at the slightly wrong angle or spacing, you just drilled a hole in your car for nothing. But when installed correctly I was impressed with their performance.
 

tempnexus

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I'll grab a shot of the rear and post it real quick.

As for the Stinger install, I honestly have no idea how people are going to install them. Stinger suggested that I install them under my headlight in the panel gap between the headlight and the panel. I'd have to take my car apart to do that and then we'd have to figure out a way to drill and mount the heads into place there. Maybe we're better off drilling a tiny hole directly into the body somewhere? Here's what they show on their website:

View attachment 120340
What is this perspex?
 

synistyr

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I'll grab a shot of the rear and post it real quick.

As for the Stinger install, I honestly have no idea how people are going to install them. Stinger suggested that I install them under my headlight in the panel gap between the headlight and the panel. I'd have to take my car apart to do that and then we'd have to figure out a way to drill and mount the heads into place there. Maybe we're better off drilling a tiny hole directly into the body somewhere? Here's what they show on their website:

View attachment 120340
The bigger issue is as we saw, if they aren't absolutely perfect you get PT with easy guns like PL3 and TSS. Which means if you drill at the slightly wrong angle or spacing, you just drilled a hole in your car for nothing. But when installed correctly I was impressed with their performance.
There is a tiny bit of room where the headlight meets the inner side of the body and the hood.. but every time you slam your hood .. I can't see them staying absolutely +5 degrees up, and 0 degrees left/right forever.

You could cut out a portion of your foglight cover and build a block/perspex setup there I suppose, but that might be too low..
 

Biohazardous

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Excellent as always. Laser testing, to me, seems more picky since it seems to be a game of numbers and angles different for each vehicle.

Kudos for being able to get things set and tested properly in the field.
 

Blizzard

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X2^^ those covers are really sweet. I’d definitely like to go that route when it’s time for a new car. It’s good to know they don’t diminish performance.
 

Phantom Z3

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Interesting results. Anyone else with ALP Dual test vs Dragoneye? If I recall correctly, it used to be able to jam Dragoneye on older firmware guns.
 

Holla

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Very nice job Vortex!!
 

PY004

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Interesting results. Anyone else with ALP Dual test vs Dragoneye? If I recall correctly, it used to be able to jam Dragoneye on older firmware guns.
Against the correct generation DET, It jams a little bit. But not enough to where id consider it usable.
 

BestRadarDetectors

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Thanks for the time you spent to test every manufactures products fairly and done with integrity.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

bslaws

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@Vortex who makes the TPX heads? I thought they were Blinder HP-905s
 

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