My Thoughts on TMG So Far - CPU Needs Improvement (1 Viewer)

jazzie366

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Hi everyone! I've been dead for awhile and that's because work is that way sometimes. However, I currently had a second CPU failure, and I thought I'd make a thread on my thoughts of the sytem overall and some tweaks that should be made to improve it overall.

So, to start off, the filtering on the CPU is sub-par for a device that is so sensitive. What I mean by this is that if we look back at the pictures I posted of the inside of the CPU, it has one, 1000uF 25V capacitor to use to filter out transient noise. However, I'm pretty sure that's not going to do it for people who have vehicles like me. I have a custom sound system with an android radio and external amplifier, plus I have LED lights all over my vehicle. Also, I drive a diesel. Why does that matter? Common Rail (CR) diesel vehicles use a single high pressure fuel pump to provide around 1500-2000PSI (on passenger vehicles with smaller diesels) to the injectors. These injectors need exceptionally high current to open as they are fighting much higher pressures. This also means the voltage spike that comes off of these is going to be MUCH higher than a normal injector.

Now, as you guys might know, I drive a Volkswagen. Why is this an issue for this particular topic? The alternator goes through an electrical bus, through a fuse, to the battery. That means that the noise from the alternator will reach most of the electronics in the car before it can be buffered out by the battery. This is a major concern for those of us running jammers in VWAG vehicles, as most of them are like this.

Now, if we read the TMG manual, we see that they say to uncoil the wire when bench testing as the magnetic field can compromise the performance of the jammers. This is an issue for anyone who decides to route their cables through a body harness grommet in their vehicles. Lots of signals for many things flow through those wires, all of them generating a magnetic field. The TMG cables need to have a grounded sheath around the shielding they already have. Large electromagnetic fields can easily penetrate a shield, even if it's made top tier. An easy solution to this is having a ground connected at each end of the head wiring to fix this, or use a thicker shield that can dissipate through the CPU ground.

Another issue that I saw that other users had is with the volume buttons. While I never touch my CPU enough to warrant the volume being changed, I will note that the design is direct contact from the trim plates to the switch. A pressure limiting spring should be added in-between the switch to limit the pressure applied so it cannot damage the switches in a manner that will damage them beyond repair.

Also, the volume of the speaker is on the low side. If I am 100% blasting my radio, there's no way I'm going to hear my CPU over the radio. A more powerful amplifier should be used with a slightly larger speaker.

Now, I know a lot of users are going to say, "Hey, but this will make the CPU more expensive!"

In reality, it should have 0 effect on cost. The circuit board currently in use, in the same size can be used. The only difference is the switches would have to be moved back about 5/32nds of an inch, and the capacitor would have to be mounted straight, also moved about 5/32nds inwards. A small filtering choke can then be added to filter out high voltage ripple on the incoming supply, and springs can be added to the switches. A 5w speaker compared to a 3w speaker with a slightly larger amplifier IC shouldn't add much to cost. However, if for some reason it is necessary to raise the pricing, I would expect no more than $10 in an increase. Keep in mind, this is what I would assume considering TMG would be sourcing all parts and modifications necessary at extremely low cost due to them getting them at manufacturer pricing. I could be completely wrong, but in my experience with manufacturing, these parts shouldn't cost much at all.
 

SquirrelMaster

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Sorry you have to deal with these issues. Maybe you could add some sort of filtering on the power supply before it goes into the TMG to mitigate this.

Do you happen to know which component exactly is failing? IIRC you had your system apart and seemed knowledgeable so if you did any advanced troubleshooting of what exactly failed, we could come up with a fix for you!
 

jazzie366

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Sorry you have to deal with these issues. Maybe you could add some sort of filtering on the power supply before it goes into the TMG to mitigate this.

Do you happen to know which component exactly is failing? IIRC you had your system apart and seemed knowledgeable so if you did any advanced troubleshooting of what exactly failed, we could come up with a fix for you!
Last time was a diode failure. Can't trouble shoot this one as giving it power and checking the power rails shows no issues. I removed a volume button as well because it was making a volume up noise before it died. Still no power on. It seems like a CPU failure.

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Last time was a diode failure. Can't trouble shoot this one as giving it power and checking the power rails shows no issues. I removed a volume button as well because it was making a volume up noise before it died. Still no power on. It seems like a CPU failure.

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If I'm correct, there's two cpus inside right? I wonder if a transient spike just fries one of them.
Hope you're still covered by warranty
 

Jag42

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@jazzie366 Clearly we have an issue going on here. The last Cpu i sent was brand new,and tested by me. I would run your 12v plug for power,instead of your hardwire. The 12v plug can handle much more electrical abuse,it does not even blow with a bad diode on my testing. Tmg has been making laser jammers since 1997, they have not had an issue with installs along with other wiring harnesses. They install in BMW,than most brands. In fact my cabeling is right on top of a massive wire harness through a grommit on my car. I will pass all your recommendation to the Tmg engineers. I will test your heads and cpu when they arrive. I will replace the system.

Thanks
 
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Vancity23

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Hi everyone! I've been dead for awhile and that's because work is that way sometimes. However, I currently had a second CPU failure, and I thought I'd make a thread on my thoughts of the sytem overall and some tweaks that should be made to improve it overall.

So, to start off, the filtering on the CPU is sub-par for a device that is so sensitive. What I mean by this is that if we look back at the pictures I posted of the inside of the CPU, it has one, 1000uF 25V capacitor to use to filter out transient noise. However, I'm pretty sure that's not going to do it for people who have vehicles like me. I have a custom sound system with an android radio and external amplifier, plus I have LED lights all over my vehicle. Also, I drive a diesel. Why does that matter? Common Rail (CR) diesel vehicles use a single high pressure fuel pump to provide around 1500-2000PSI (on passenger vehicles with smaller diesels) to the injectors. These injectors need exceptionally high current to open as they are fighting much higher pressures. This also means the voltage spike that comes off of these is going to be MUCH higher than a normal injector.

Now, as you guys might know, I drive a Volkswagen. Why is this an issue for this particular topic? The alternator goes through an electrical bus, through a fuse, to the battery. That means that the noise from the alternator will reach most of the electronics in the car before it can be buffered out by the battery. This is a major concern for those of us running jammers in VWAG vehicles, as most of them are like this.

Now, if we read the TMG manual, we see that they say to uncoil the wire when bench testing as the magnetic field can compromise the performance of the jammers. This is an issue for anyone who decides to route their cables through a body harness grommet in their vehicles. Lots of signals for many things flow through those wires, all of them generating a magnetic field. The TMG cables need to have a grounded sheath around the shielding they already have. Large electromagnetic fields can easily penetrate a shield, even if it's made top tier. An easy solution to this is having a ground connected at each end of the head wiring to fix this, or use a thicker shield that can dissipate through the CPU ground.

Another issue that I saw that other users had is with the volume buttons. While I never touch my CPU enough to warrant the volume being changed, I will note that the design is direct contact from the trim plates to the switch. A pressure limiting spring should be added in-between the switch to limit the pressure applied so it cannot damage the switches in a manner that will damage them beyond repair.

Also, the volume of the speaker is on the low side. If I am 100% blasting my radio, there's no way I'm going to hear my CPU over the radio. A more powerful amplifier should be used with a slightly larger speaker.

Now, I know a lot of users are going to say, "Hey, but this will make the CPU more expensive!"

In reality, it should have 0 effect on cost. The circuit board currently in use, in the same size can be used. The only difference is the switches would have to be moved back about 5/32nds of an inch, and the capacitor would have to be mounted straight, also moved about 5/32nds inwards. A small filtering choke can then be added to filter out high voltage ripple on the incoming supply, and springs can be added to the switches. A 5w speaker compared to a 3w speaker with a slightly larger amplifier IC shouldn't add much to cost. However, if for some reason it is necessary to raise the pricing, I would expect no more than $10 in an increase. Keep in mind, this is what I would assume considering TMG would be sourcing all parts and modifications necessary at extremely low cost due to them getting them at manufacturer pricing. I could be completely wrong, but in my experience with manufacturing, these parts shouldn't cost much at all.
Wow impressive comments man what is background, some type if electrical engineer or something?

I have a Tmg 3 head system in my 2018 Bmw M2, and it has a ton of electronics with wireless apple car play and wireless charging, and optional mperformance exhaust with BT remote to open the exhaust flaps, and I have had no issues.
 
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Deacon

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I would run your 12v plug for power,instead of your hardwire. The 12v plug can handle much more electrical abuse,it does not even blow with a bad diode on my testing.
Is there something in the 12V cigarette lighter adapter itself that would contribute to this effect? Maybe a power conditioner or something like that? I would think if it’s just a regular empty plug, you could cut the connector off and use the wires for a hardwire. Unless it’s actually changing voltage, that is, like stepping down to 6V or 5V for example, but I don’t think that’s the case right?
 

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Is there something in the 12V cigarette lighter adapter itself that would contribute to this effect? Maybe a power conditioner or something like that? I would think if it’s just a regular empty plug, you could cut the connector off and use the wires for a hardwire. Unless it’s actually changing voltage, that is, like stepping down to 6V or 5V for example, but I don’t think that’s the case right?
No there usually isn't anything there. It'll be the same line as any other 12v line for the most part
 

Jag42

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A Update on @jazzie366. The CPU fired right up for me,and the heads are receiving and firing. This could lead to a hardwire issue,or a electrical issue.

The CPU with the volume buttons he removed.
20190423_160256.jpg
 

jazzie366

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A Update on @jazzie366. The CPU fired right up for me,and the heads are receiving and firing. This could lead to a hardwire issue,or a electrical issue.

The CPU with the volume buttons he removed.
View attachment 116768
So it's been about a week and I got my new CPU + my heads back, and after I put my setup back together, it STILL didn't power on, what the hell?

So, I went and probed for power, I have power. Disconnected diodes, still nothing. voltage-drop tested the CPU hardwire (drawing current from the wire), around 5.0V of drop at 200mA (!).

What the hell is going on? I pulled the fuse out of the hardwire and it's good, so I go back to my add-a-fuse (which I had a 2A VW fuse in it) and it's slightly toasted, so to speak. The filament in the fuse looks like it was run *very* close to it's maximum current for a long time, to the point where it may glow, and then the load was released. As I said before, I heard my CPU saying, "volume (number/maximum)" before it died. Well, needless to say there was significant current draw before it died. Also, soon after I replaced said fuse, the fuse that I was using in my old hardwire which I was still trying to use, blew the second I used my tester with it. Something was definitely wrong with the old unit, or there was an intermittent fault that caused the issue. Not sure what would do this but I'm very confused.
 

benzr

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Sounds to me like it is DEFINITELY your wiring/circuit. Have you tested the circuit you chose for constant steady clean 12 volts.

Its cool they replaced your CpU being that you butchered it and cannot be sold

But Once
Replaced when its your/the consumers fault shame on you ...

Twice shame on TMG !!!!

Dude its on your side not theirs. IMHO
Based on facts stated.

Try using the included power supply cord.




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jazzie366

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Sounds to me like it is DEFINITELY your wiring/circuit. Have you tested the circuit you chose for constant steady clean 12 volts.

Its cool they replaced your CpU being that you butchered it and cannot be sold

But Once
Replaced when its your/the consumers fault shame on you ...

Twice shame on TMG !!!!

Dude its on your side not theirs. IMHO
Based on facts stated.

Try using the included power supply cord.




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I agree, there's something wrong on my end. I however can't be sure what it is due to the fact that it died while I was driving, never touched it and no alerts. Why would the fuse blow for no reason? Also, any CPU that is returned shouldn't ever be sold again, even if it works/can be repaired. However, if I can't find anything wrong on my end, what am I going to do?

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spinner55

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When I was having trouble with my radios due to spikes etc. I put in a high power voltage filter from a 2 way shop. Have you monitored the power with a meter or something?
Take care
Spin
 

Jag42

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I did mention several times to check all electrical connections,believe me you are not the only one.
I have replaced lots of cpu's and heads that were not even on my end. Ming tests all returned stuff,as well as myself. I'm not a fan of add a fuse. The Cpu i recently sent was from brand new stock,
I even left the cpu,and heads plugged in for 24 hours to confirm,it's not the heads.
-- Double Post Merged: --
I would run the 12v plug,and call it a day,since all your electrical issues in the fuse box.
-- Double Post Merged: --
All returned bad Cpu's i send back to Ming. I can tell if a head is bad within 5 min that is returned also. I can send you a used cpu,since they are frying like french fries at Mcdonalds :)
 
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Sounds like a bad connection in your hardwire my man. A voltage drop of 5v is either a ****ty cable or a bad connection.
 

jazzie366

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Sounds like a bad connection in your hardwire my man. A voltage drop of 5v is either a ****ty cable or a bad connection.
It was a burned fuse. You know the little wire inside of a fuse that actually breaks the connection? That wire was burned as if it was being run close to it's breaking current. i.e. it was a 2A fuse having 1.8A of current drawn through it. The fuse wire will glow and burn instead of breaking.

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benzr

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It was a burned fuse. You know the little wire inside of a fuse that actually breaks the connection? That wire was burned as if it was being run close to it's breaking current. i.e. it was a 2A fuse having 1.8A of current drawn through it. The fuse wire will glow and burn instead of breaking.

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Thats a great point. I never thought if it that way.

I LEARNED SOMETHING TODAY !!

Thx fellow RDF rs

Yeah try the spike protector !!


Good Luck !!

Benzr


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jazzie366

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I did mention several times to check all electrical connections,believe me you are not the only one.
I have replaced lots of cpu's and heads that were not even on my end. Ming tests all returned stuff,as well as myself. I'm not a fan of add a fuse. The Cpu i recently sent was from brand new stock,
I even left the cpu,and heads plugged in for 24 hours to confirm,it's not the heads.
-- Double Post Merged: --
I would run the 12v plug,and call it a day,since all your electrical issues in the fuse box.
-- Double Post Merged: --
All returned bad Cpu's i send back to Ming. I can tell if a head is bad within 5 min that is returned also. I can send you a used cpu,since they are frying like french fries at Mcdonalds :)
Question. Could I purchase used CPUs from you to try and experiment with? I need another one to test a redesign I am coming up with.

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System

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There's a **** ton of resistance somewhere to get a 5V volt drop on a 12V line. Maybe there is something is shorting out on the circuit you tapped? That would explain the intermittent issues
 

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