Radar Cross Section Required for Police Radar?

butterman

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Hey guys, has anybody played with some radar guns and noticed how small of an object that guns can sense?

I.e. a motorcycle, bird, ball?


next question...how does RCS affect police guns? I assume most guns have filtering that will filter out small strength ( small RCS?) readings even if it's a high frequency scatter?

next question: has there been testing done to reduce RCS through ablative paints? angled panels? has anybody noticed different aquisition time or range when targeting lambos? tr7s? vs SUVs or trucks?
 
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OBeerWANKenobi

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That being said, the "kill zone" is indeed different depending on the RCS and material. Motorcycles do have to be closer to get a speed reading, and it some cases that I've noticed (when radar vehicle and motorcycle are both moving in opposing directions), considerably closer. Different cars made of different materials have an affect on the distance at which speed is acquired as well.
 

butterman

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That being said, the "kill zone" is indeed different depending on the RCS and material. Motorcycles do have to be closer to get a speed reading, and it some cases that I've noticed (when radar vehicle and motorcycle are both moving in opposing directions), considerably closer. Different cars made of different materials have an affect on the distance at which speed is acquired as well.
@Deacon Is the hardware the same or just the tech? That also doesn't mean that they're filtering isn't different, I would imagine that radar would have much more restrictive filtering due to there being more targets (i.e. cars, birds, people) and noise, either from the vehicle... or rogue EMF in urban environments?

@OBeerWANKenobi That's good to know. The materials thing makes sense.

Tangent on why that makes sense.....
One of the most important factors in RCS is the area perpendicular to the radar receiver. On the front it's not hard to see that the largest area is usually the bumper. Which is usually made of plastic which has a dielectric constant very close to air, so the radar basically passes right through this, as can be seen by vortex's stinger install, and will hit significantly less forward facing metal.
 

V1Jake

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Would be a good test to setup a Stalker unit on a completely flat empty road and have someone drive down the road towards the radar on a motorcycle, midsize car, suv, etc with that distance app to see how the radar reacts to the difference cross sections.
 

STS134

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The same radar police use is the same radar they use to clock baseball pitches and tennis serves. It doesn’t take much.
Yeah but baseball and tennis speeds are measured at practically point-blank range. If you were that close to a cop's gun and headed in the cop's direction, you'd have already passed the cop before he even got a glance at your speed.
-- Double Post Merged: --
Hey guys, has anybody played with some radar guns and noticed how small of an object that guns can sense?
I haven't tried small objects, but I've gone the other way. I got around 130-150 mph on commercial airplanes coming in for a landing with my Stalker II MDR, but I was never able to get the TSS to lock.
 

butterman

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Would be a good test to setup a Stalker unit on a completely flat empty road and have someone drive down the road towards the radar on a motorcycle, midsize car, suv, etc with that distance app to see how the radar reacts to the difference cross sections.
I would LOVE to see this. The reason for my questions will hopefully become clear over the next month or so...
 

Dave G

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I clocked an ant one day. He was doing 95 mph in ant speed.

115638
 

V1Jake

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I have to find a nice spot on the side of a highway and play around with the DSR to see how the range is
 

butterman

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I clocked an ant one day. He was doing 95 mph in ant speed.

View attachment 115638
Awesome info, this backs up what I was assuming. Where did you find this chart?
-- Double Post Merged: --
nvm, found the source.
-- Double Post Merged: --
ok, this is a bit obvious now. I should have read the wikipedia page....
 

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Dave G

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Awesome info, this backs up what I was assuming. Where did you find this chart?
-- Double Post Merged: --
nvm, found the source.
-- Double Post Merged: --
ok, this is a bit obvious now. I should have read the wikipedia page....
Google searching and run acrossed it.
 

mb300sd

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Other than size, I wonder if different materials would have an effect. Steel/aluminum/plastic/fiberglass/carbon fiber.

Might justify some full carbon body panels if there's a significant effect.
 

butterman

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Other than size, I wonder if different materials would have an effect. Steel/aluminum/plastic/fiberglass/carbon fiber.

Might justify some full carbon body panels if there's a significant effect.
It makes a large difference. It is strongly related to the dielectric constant of the material. Metals are incredible reflectors, plastics including CF and fiberglass are to microwaves what glass is to optical light. A CF body might help by reducing area of the metal facing the source but the radar will still shoot through the CF panels and hit your radiator, engine block, wheels etc. The largest contributing factors to RCS is area and geometry ( angled away from the antenna). This is where 90% of your stealth gains are going to be
 

mb300sd

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It makes a large difference. It is strongly related to the dielectric constant of the material. Metals are incredible reflectors, plastics including CF and fiberglass are to microwaves what glass is to optical light. A CF body might help by reducing area of the metal facing the source but the radar will still shoot through the CF panels and hit your radiator, engine block, wheels etc. The largest contributing factors to RCS is area and geometry ( angled away from the antenna). This is where 90% of your stealth gains are going to be
Might be interesting to impregnate radar absorbing material into the fiberglass/cf resin. Absorb the radar before it gets to any metal structures.
 

butterman

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Might be interesting to impregnate radar absorbing material into the fiberglass/cf resin. Absorb the radar before it gets to any metal structures.
check out the jaumann absorber. you could probably do this with a composite in the middle of the sandwich

 

200V

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I've also read somewhere that not having your radiator straight up and down will deflect some radar energy away from the receiving gun. I think some corvettes are like this. Maybe I need to shim mine with a few washers?
-- Double Post Merged: --
Also, I am guessing that the large hunk of foam that is just inside my front and rear bumpers might have some radar absorbing properties. Our could be painted to improve them!
 
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