ZR5, Anyone test 2 vs 3 vs 4 head set ups?

Gothamnyc

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thanks @PY004 SO here is what I am getting at no matter what if you have 3 heads or 4 heads only 2 of those heads are firing to protect the car, the other 1 or 2 heads detect.... What if any advantage exists having 2 heads vs 1 detect? Anyone ever test, hit the car and not have the system detect the hit?
 

Stealthbull

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It's already public knowledge and doesn't help cops. Not like they're going to come and tell you to install only 2 heads lol

Escort you need 3 only for Det defense. Other vpr guns are fine.
Always learning more and more about laser but DE sure is a different animal.
 

amgliturbo

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@BaileyAB this thread got off topic a lot so it was easy to miss... I was talking about potentially using a standalone ZR5 system to increase the amount of heads/coverage... If I do that I could add one of those heads to my existing MAX 360ci set up giving me 3 heads in the front, than run the stand alone ZR5 system with it's left over head and my 2 already mounted heads to have 3 in the rear... Furthermore I could purchase 2 more heads (ZR5 system only comes with 2) and run 4 heads in the front 4 in the rear... However I am pretty sure having 3 or 4 heads on one side doesn't provide me and difference in "coverage"...not 100% sure thus curious if anyone has tested 3 vs 4 heads....
I will be trying 4 shifters up front in the next week or so. I currently have the Max ci 360 with 2 laser shifters up front and 2 rear. This system (on my large Mercedes) was tested last month by members of this forum with the 2 head front/2 head rear standard setup-- the 2 heads up front tested really well (JTG) against all guns not including the Dragon Eye--against the Dragon Eye (DE) it did pretty well with a few punch throughs as the car got closer to the DE gun--however late enough punch through that I would likely have had time to get the warning and scrub off enough speed to avoid a ticket. The rear did not fair nearly as well as the front against regular guns and clearly performed poorly against the DE--not sure just how bad but testers conclusion was that I couldn't really rely on rear coverage with this system. I guess some rear coverage is better than none but their conclusion wasn't very comforting regarding the possibility of getting tagged with laser from behind. I will install a Zw5 temporarily using the extra 2 heads up front (paired with a max 360C)--I guess I will also try just 3 heads up front also to see if 3 vs 4 heads makes any differnce. I will test the Zw5 system on a stand alone basis (just out of curiosity) and then test it with the 360ci system, i.e testing with 4 heads (2 with the installed 360ci and the 2 from the Zw5). Hoping it will prevent all DE punchthroughs. Later I will try to see if I can use the Zw5/Max 360C and 360ci together running 3 heads up front and 3 heads in the rear. I am assuming the Zw5 can be operated paired with the Max 360C but without needing the Max 360C mounted on my windshield--would like to keep it in my center console since the Max 360ci will alert me to radar threats. If anyone knows if this works I would appreciate the feedback.
 

DrHow

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I will be trying 4 shifters up front in the next week or so. I currently have the Max ci 360 with 2 laser shifters up front and 2 rear. This system (on my large Mercedes) was tested last month by members of this forum with the 2 head front/2 head rear standard setup-- the 2 heads up front tested really well (JTG) against all guns not including the Dragon Eye--against the Dragon Eye (DE) it did pretty well with a few punch throughs as the car got closer to the DE gun--however late enough punch through that I would likely have had time to get the warning and scrub off enough speed to avoid a ticket. The rear did not fair nearly as well as the front against regular guns and clearly performed poorly against the DE--not sure just how bad but testers conclusion was that I couldn't really rely on rear coverage with this system. I guess some rear coverage is better than none but their conclusion wasn't very comforting regarding the possibility of getting tagged with laser from behind. I will install a Zw5 temporarily using the extra 2 heads up front (paired with a max 360C)--I guess I will also try just 3 heads up front also to see if 3 vs 4 heads makes any differnce. I will test the Zw5 system on a stand alone basis (just out of curiosity) and then test it with the 360ci system, i.e testing with 4 heads (2 with the installed 360ci and the 2 from the Zw5). Hoping it will prevent all DE punchthroughs. Later I will try to see if I can use the Zw5/Max 360C and 360ci together running 3 heads up front and 3 heads in the rear. I am assuming the Zw5 can be operated paired with the Max 360C but without needing the Max 360C mounted on my windshield--would like to keep it in my center console since the Max 360ci will alert me to radar threats. If anyone knows if this works I would appreciate the feedback.
Question.. cool idea to try dual system set up. Are you going to use the ZW5 two heads for the rear? I had an idea to try that as a easier way to install rear CM. One of the SUVs has a nice spot for the controller and power, easier to run the cabling to the heads. Then wireless back to RD (placed anywhere) acting as a switch to kill. They need to get JTK auto feature. Which in this odd case would make easy work with auto JTK with a RD stuffed in console. :). Granted this is ghetto install idea. But, for the one SUV, easier to have wireless for the rear than running everything up front. There is a feature idea. Combo of wired and wireless under one interface for various add on and hard to install systems. :)
 

amgliturbo

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Question.. cool idea to try dual system set up. Are you going to use the ZW5 two heads for the rear? I had an idea to try that as a easier way to install rear CM. One of the SUVs has a nice spot for the controller and power, easier to run the cabling to the heads. Then wireless back to RD (placed anywhere) acting as a switch to kill. They need to get JTK auto feature. Which in this odd case would make easy work with auto JTK with a RD stuffed in console. :). Granted this is ghetto install idea. But, for the one SUV, easier to have wireless for the rear than running everything up front. There is a feature idea. Combo of wired and wireless under one interface for various add on and hard to install systems. :)
My current set up with the max 360 ci has 2 permanently installed heads in the rear with wires running through the cabin (custom install by the dealer from the rear up to the 360 i’s bridge box in the engine bay). Thus, wasn’t planning on undoing all of the dealers custom wiring. If I want 3 up front and 3 rear this leaves me with the option of having to run a new wire to the rear and having the 3rd front head and rear 3rd head operated by the Zw5 with its bridge box and communication module in the engine bay. Alternatively, and maybe the better option, is to have the Zw5 control the currently installed 2 rear heads with the ci controlling the 3 front heads and the new additional head in the rear. What I don’t know, which could influence my decision, is whether the heads work in tandem. Meaning if one head on the same system detects laser do the 2 heads or 3 heads on the front fire automatically. If so using the zw5 to control one head up front and one in the back may reduce the designed functionality of having one heads detection trigger both heads jamming transmission.
 

Gothamnyc

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I still haven't played with this yet as the max 360ci is still my wife's old C300 and hasn't moved to the SQ5 yet... I am wondering if anyone ever has missed detecting a Dragon Gun, like the car had been shot and the jammers never fired? I get the coverage may have been off and PT's occurred but they always fired? If that's the case I can't see any real advantage of 4 heads as you will have 2 heads firing 2 detecting, in a 3 head set up its still 2 firing just 1 detecting... but would love to see some real world testing... I have to pull the system out of her old car ASAP as it's just to easy to be way over the PSL in the new one....
 

amgliturbo

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I still haven't played with this yet as the max 360ci is still my wife's old C300 and hasn't moved to the SQ5 yet... I am wondering if anyone ever has missed detecting a Dragon Gun, like the car had been shot and the jammers never fired? I get the coverage may have been off and PT's occurred but they always fired? If that's the case I can't see any real advantage of 4 heads as you will have 2 heads firing 2 detecting, in a 3 head set up its still 2 firing just 1 detecting... but would love to see some real world testing... I have to pull the system out of her old car ASAP as it's just to easy to be way over the PSL in the new one....

Gothamnyc, are you sure that no more than 2 heads fire in a 3 head system? Is it only DE detection that works in this manner? After my initial install with 2 heads up front and 2 rear I purchased a 5th head and put it up front so that I had 3 heads up front--since the bridge box only supports 4 heads total I disconnected one of the rear heads and replaced that connection with the new head upfront thus forsaking all rear protection. When I spoke to Escort's installion expert to ask him about whether I needed to change the pin switch so that I had all 3 heads up front set to "front" on the max ci main control box I got a somewhat equivocal answer--something like..." you probably should set all 3 pin switches to their front setting".

I thought, but very well could be wrong, that each head has the ability to detect and fire/shift and that upon detection by any head on the same side of the car that they would all fire/shift. It would make more sense regarding protection--regardless of the gun being used--if all sensors shifted when one or multiple heads detected lidar.

If you mate the max 360ci with 2 heads up front with the Zw5's 2 heads up front then it has to be that the Zw5 will fire separately giving you its designed firing pattern regardless of the Max 360ci firing pattern. Now, if a Max 360ci 2-head front setup always fires both heads upon detection and the Zw5 does the same then this setup would always result in 4 heads firing to protect the front.
 

Gothamnyc

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@amgliturbo When dealing with a non variable pulse rate gun they all fire at once....with a 2 head set up and a VPR one fires one detects, actually no matter which direction you get hit the front and rear heads fire together anyway... in a 4 head you have 2 fire 2 detecting with a VPR gun... in a three head 1,2,3 pushed forward on the box it is my understanding 1 fires 2 detects and 3 fires when hit with a VPR ... So even you run 2 heads from the Max 360 and 2 heads from the Zw5 you would still get 1 head from each system firing and 1 detecting when encountering guns like the DET... So yes if you were worried about coverage and protection for guns that are not VPRs you could have 4 heads fire at once, b ut unless you are talking a huge SUV not sure it will be needed...
I am sure someone can explain it in better details or chime in if I am off a bit but I know 100% without a doubt with 2 heads and a DET type gun 1 fires and 1 detects and both front and rear fire together...
 

amgliturbo

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@amgliturbo When dealing with a non variable pulse rate gun they all fire at once....with a 2 head set up and a VPR one fires one detects, actually no matter which direction you get hit the front and rear heads fire together anyway... in a 4 head you have 2 fire 2 detecting with a VPR gun... in a three head 1,2,3 pushed forward on the box it is my understanding 1 fires 2 detects and 3 fires when hit with a VPR ... So even you run 2 heads from the Max 360 and 2 heads from the Zw5 you would still get 1 head from each system firing and 1 detecting when encountering guns like the DET... So yes if you were worried about coverage and protection for guns that are not VPRs you could have 4 heads fire at once, b ut unless you are talking a huge SUV not sure it will be needed...
I am sure someone can explain it in better details or chime in if I am off a bit but I know 100% without a doubt with 2 heads and a DET type gun 1 fires and 1 detects and both front and rear fire together...
@Gothamnyc Thanks for the info. I guess my problem is even though the ci coupled with a Zw5 gives me a total of 6 heads since there is no integration between each system a head detection of a VPR on the ci system will not fire the Zw5 heads and vice versa. Thus I will not be able to get full 3 head coverage for both front and rear for VPR since the Zw5 will always be limited to detection with one of the heads and firing the 2nd head. Meaning if I have the Zw5, for example, controlling 2 heads in the back a third head in the back that is controlled by the ci will not fire based on detection by either of the zw5 heads in the back--same for the front. It seems my best option for DE/VPR is to have the ci control 3 up front (1 detects and the other 2 fire) since front coverage is more important than rear coverage and have the Zw5 control 2 heads in the rear and the unused 4th ci head in the rear just for some added rear protection against non VPR guns.

I am also in the NY area--have you seen many VPR guns being used in and around NY-- especially on LI?

Thanks again for your insights
 

Gothamnyc

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@amgliturbo DIdn't realize the Zw5 was limited to just 2 heads? I thought you had the option to run up to 4 heads off that bridge box to? 3 heads of the max 360ci in the front 3 heads on Zw5 in the rear, all run to a master kill switch...This was at least how I had it planned out... I only looked at the hardwired ZR5 though...
 

amgliturbo

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@amgliturbo DIdn't realize the Zw5 was limited to just 2 heads? I thought you had the option to run up to 4 heads off that bridge box to? 3 heads of the max 360ci in the front 3 heads on Zw5 in the rear, all run to a master kill switch...This was at least how I had it planned out... I only looked at the hardwired ZR5 though...
@Gothamnyc, @Vortex

@Gothamnyc, Yes the Zw5 does only support 2 heads. @Vortex noted that while the bridge box for the Zw5 has 4 ports for shifting (which he tested and they appeared to work) he was told by Escort that the controller/communication module does not have enough power to reliably support the extra 2 heads.

I understand that if you have 2 heads set to the front position (ie. via the controller switch pin settings) and 2 heads set to the rear position that only 1 head front and 1 head rear would detect VPR and that the other front or rear head, as the case might be, would shift. However, is it possible that if you are using 4 heads up front with all of the switch pins set to the front position that if one of the 4 heads detects VPR/DE the other 3 heads will shift/jam? If so I think that there would be a big benefit to having 4 heads up front. @Vortex might know the answer to this since he seems to know more about the Escort shifters than even Escort--I can't get anyone at Escort to answer these questions?
 

Gothamnyc

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exactly why I was hoping someone had tested 3 than 4 heads! Maybe some can shoot 3 than 4 on a test bench to see what happens?
 

amgliturbo

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exactly why I was hoping someone had tested 3 than 4 heads! Maybe some can shoot 3 than 4 on a test bench to see what happens?
Today I put 4 heads on the front of my car all controlled by the Max 360ci and I now have my 2 heads in the rear controlled by the Zw5 and my Max 360C. I can ask some of the guys on this forum to test my car with 3 and then 4 front heads connected. Not sure if I will be able to tell if there is an improvement since my car already tested really well with only 2 heads up front so there may be no discernable difference with road testing 3 vs 4 heads. We would need to be able to determine how many heads are actually shifting/jamming when a VPR pulse is detected by 1 of the heads-- to accurately make this determination you would need to isolate each head to see if 3 of the four actually shift when 1 of the 4 actually detect a VPR pulse. I guess you could block off 2 heads at a time(leaving 1 of the 4 heads to detect and the other unblocked head to jam/shift. You then block of another set of 2 heads at a time to see if the VPR gun is jammed. This way you could theoretically isolate each of three heads independently to determine if there are always at least 3 heads shifting when one head detects a vpr pulse. A real world difficulty in this test is that my car appears to have to be travelling in excess of 25-35 mph to get any shifting at all so each test would introduce variability that could be misleading, for example, in one run of the test one of the shifters might actually be shifting but there is a punch through anyway as often happens given the limited coverage of each head vis-à-vis the front surface area of the car. A definitive determination would likely require a bench test so that test to test variability can be eliminated.

As an aside I had a couple of false rear lidar alerts on the Zw5 system controlling the 2 rear heads on my car--not sure what that is all about but will investigate further.
 

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So much drama over Escort product. Just get AL 2RX + 1TX and forget about this ever happened :)
 

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