Uniden R3 vs Original Escort Redline - observations.

pezcat19

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#1
Hi all,

I have been using an original Escort Redline for K and Ka for many years here in Australia. It has served me very well - however the frequent K falses had got to the point where it was impractical - it picks up everything on K, every car blind spot monitor system, radar cruise system, Every single late model Commodore, Captiva and Subaru, every automatic door, etc.

It had fantastic range in general on both K / Ka, however K band is needed here so I have got myself a new R3 NZ/AU. (I spend at least 2hrs a day in the car so I needed to upgrade).

I have made the following observations and would like to know if others have found the same?


My R3 has all K and Ka filters switched OFF, and is in Wide mode. All Ka bands are selected. X is OFF.

NOTE: wherever possible, all tests have been repeated with only a SINGLE detector powered on. There has been NO CHANGE to the results as I have recorded.

Observations:

1 - My R3 rarely picks up a car blind spot monitor system, radar cruise system, late model Commodore, Captiva or Subaru unless you are on top of one. It does detect shop automatic doors like the Redline did, but possibly with slightly less range than the Redline. My R3 is far less chatty on K band overall. My Redline seems to be as hot as hell. The R3, not so much and looks to have some level of filtering enabled by default. Is this a good thing? I don't know yet!!?

2 - For fixed speed camera detection on K band, the R3 seems to be on par with the original Redline for distance - but it definitely does not seem better than it. Just the same really.

3 - Ka band detection compared to the Redline - I still need more time before I can make a judgement on this - I have only encountered one Ka radar in the last few weeks since I have owned the R3. The Redline alerted 1 second before the R3 in this case. All filtering on both detectors was OFF.

4 - If I point my Redline at the LCD screen in my car, the Laser alert goes off. The R3 doesn't alert to this.

5 - The R3 has occasional Ka falses for short periods of time. No known source of the falses, and they are not repeatable at this stage. These have ALL been reporting on 33.456 or 33.460.

6 - With the Redline and R3 side by side, the Redline alerted to a real laser trap 2 seconds before the R3 - however the Redline was in a slightly more favorable position relative to the location of the laser trap. The trap was approximately 250-300m away. (A stationery HWP car with the handheld gun out the window).

7 - The Redline is approximately 70% more chatty on K than the R3 with car blind spot and radar cruise control systems (that is, a LOT more chatty!). These systems are reporting between 24.100 and 24.250 generally. On a 30 min trip on the freeway in medium traffic, the Redline was beeping for approximately 40% of the entire trip (very annoying!!!) . The R3 was beeping for approximately 5% of the time.

8 - I estimate that the Redline is 30% more chatty on automatic doors than the R3.

9 - On a real fixed K camera, both detectors alerted at the same time - the Redline maintained the signal while the R3 did loose it for a few seconds on approach, before obtaining the signal again. The R3 reported 24.111, the Redline 24.108

10 - If I point the detectors at each-other, the Redline detects the R3 on 24.03x, but the R3 doesn't detect the Redline at all. @Mithheru THIS IS INTERESTING - is the R3 frequency limited to 24.050 floor on K because of an internally generated spurious / birdie signal???? Maybe!

11 - There is a slight K frequency display discrepancy between the R3 and Redline of .003GHz (or 3MHz) which is relatively consistent.. (For example, If the Redline reads 24.100, the R3 will read approximately 24.103)

12 - Enabling TSR on the Redline makes the detectors more comparable in terms of K falses. The R3 MUST have some K filtering enabled by default as it does a very good job of ignoring car BSM and Cruise systems with all filtering set to OFF. HOWEVER - the Redline with TSR enabled has missed a few real fixed cameras where the R3 alerted every time. Sometimes the Redline detects, other times it doesn't. Caution must be used with TSR enabled on the Redline!

13 - The lowest K frequency I have detected with the R3 is 24.060 (I understand that 24.050 is its K band floor.)

14 - Running the Redline and R3 side by side has shown no reduction, or change in either detectors performance in all scenarios where it is has been possible to test this. That is, I have repeated these tests where it is actually possible to do so* (see below) with both detectors side by side, and also with them totally isolated, with no changes in the results observed.

*For example - I am NOT able to repeat a test that involves driving towards an active Highway Patrol Police car with a Laser gun out the window, am I!?? But I am able to repeat tests where it involves a stationary, non-police K band mobile camera, or a fixed camera, or on a false signal, etc...

15 - Updating the R3 firmware, AND performing "Factory Resets" does NOT erase the Mute Memory! This is great news!





What have you guys found? I am keen to know your thoughts.
 
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Mithheru

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#2
Thanks for your comments.

I used my original redline almost every day for the last nine or so years before it was stolen and got an R3 as a replacement.

It would be good to run them side by side (probably okay as they're both stealth detectors!?), or alternatively repeat three runs for each past a couple of standard fixed alert points.

From what I recall, I think the R3 picks up some alerts on K that the redline didn't do. The supermarket where I park now gives much stronger range and signal than I got with the redline. Also there are often alerts on the road leading to our house which frequently alert in the same place on the R3. This was always silent on the redline (and therefore a surprise when I got the R3 and found it alerting consistent at the same place).

I do agree the redline alerts to lower frequencies, especially below those the R3 simply cannot detect. So on these your redline will definitely give more 'noise'.

For K band redflex pole mounted cameras, I found the alert range to be very similar (US firmware). However with the NZ firmware I am confident I am now getting K band alerts at greater range than ever encountered on the redline. For the last two weeks running the NZ firmware I had encountered K band alert going to a pole mounted redflex for over 300m. This is in fact greater range than the GPS camera based alert system can do in the R3!

However, some of this could be model specific. My redline was one of the first original redlines, bought soon after they came out, and imported from the US. Also we don't know what the filtering in the redline was doing. Also even for the same make and model there is always some natural variation.

I am now reinstalling the US firmware for a review and some camera database testing. However, my regular drive goes past some pole mount redflex. Therefore if I again run US firmware for a week or two I should be better placed to understand a comparison of R3 firmware. Perhaps one day soon, I will do dashcam footage of the exact same R3 running alternatively NZ firmware and US firmware. This would be a definitive test comparing firmware as it completely rules out any possible difference in minute variations in the hardware itself.

M.
 

pezcat19

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Thanks mate,

Very interesting observations. I will do some side by side testing of the Redline and R3 and will let you know what I find out with mine.

Some dashcam video would be great if you are able to.

FYI - my redline is just like yours, one of the first units from the USA.
 

Aucklandradar

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#4
Perhaps one day soon, I will do dashcam footage of the exact same R3 running alternatively NZ firmware and US firmware.
I would be super interested to see this against Redflex Speed Cameras
 

pezcat19

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Here are some more observations from my most recent trips with both the R3 and Redline running side-by-side. The detectors are separated by approximately 30cm horizontally, mounted low in the center of the front windscreen. (I have numbered each observation to make it easier to reference later, or for us to go into more detail / testing later.)

NOTE: Running the Redline and R3 side by side has shown no reduction, or change in either detectors performance in all scenarios where it is has been possible to test this. That is, I have repeated these tests where it is actually possible to do so* (see below) with both detectors side by side, and also with them totally isolated, with no changes in the results observed.

*For example - I am NOT able to repeat a test that involves driving towards an active Highway Patrol Police car with a Laser gun out the window, am I!?? But I am able to repeat tests where it involves a stationary, non-police K band mobile camera, or a fixed camera, or on a false signal, etc...


<<<<OBSERVATIONS MOVED TO FIRST POST>>>>


Obviously more testing is needed, and I need to see some Ka signals! But this is what I have found so far.
 
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Mithheru

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@pezcat19 - Some really good observations here. Really interesting you detect the R3 with the Redline!

I really can't compare these two in an objective way like you have as my redline was stolen (Serial No. 23003929 if anyone finds it / sees it for sale). I'm really relying upon my memory and previous and current observations.

Most of my K band alerts I have referred to would be false alerts from automatic doors etc. I agree with you that the redline was a lot more noisy at picking up other motor vehicles.

Actually the K band alert on our road has disappeared for the last few days. Therefore it is possible it was picking up something that was being tested or stored in the vicinity of that location temporarily. So I think your observations overall are probably quite similar to mine.

I'm going to have a play with my old Dashcam to see what I can put together.
 

shadow69

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i have an original redline pro a bought locally and an imported r3.

my r3 seems to smoke my redline on both k and ka bands, however i turn k band off, as the r3 wont detect mobile cameras and @mirthheru has sorted the fixed camera db into a useable tool so i feel i dont need it. just gotta keep eyes peeled for vans parked on side of road.
 

379 EXH

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#8
Currently running both Redline & R3.
I found the R3 more chatty on K band, so I turned it off after 2 days.
It couldn’t pick up vans & has the database so I find no need for it to be on.

From all I read I thought the R3 would smoke the Redline on Ka, however I haven’t found this to be the case.
They seem to be on par with each other.

Initially surprised but now I’m just happy I have 2 very competent detectors.
 

LouG

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Running detectors together is not wise, they can interfere with each other even at random times. Probably when you need them to warn you of I/O.
 

pezcat19

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Running detectors together is not wise, they can interfere with each other even at random times. Probably when you need them to warn you of I/O.
This is true in general - HOWEVER see my updated testing information in the first post. In the case of the R3 and the Redline running side by side,- it's about as ideal as the situation can get! :)

FYI all - I have updated the first post to include all observations. I will keep updating the first post from this point forward.

I also updated #3 regarding Ka performance, #5 regarding the Ka false frequency, and added #12 info about Redline TSR performance.

--- DOUBLEPOST MERGED ---

Currently running both Redline & R3.
I found the R3 more chatty on K band, so I turned it off after 2 days.
It couldn’t pick up vans & has the database so I find no need for it to be on.
Do you have TSR turned ON on your Redline?
 
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LouG

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No, it's been shown that so called stealthly detectors can interfere with each other.
There has been cases of R3's interfering with V1's. The biggest problem is that the interference is subtle, not causing an alert but reducing detection range, response time and sometimes putting one detector to sleep.
Search the forums and you'll have enough reading for weeks on the issue.
 

Aucklandradar

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#12
LouG is right here.. Even stealth detectors can cause issues for each other.

Any tests done with both running at the same car can be deemed as untrustworthy
 

Mithheru

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Okay, here is the comparison I have done on the NZ and US firmware. This is done using EXACTLY THE SAME R3! (I.e. upgraded overnight)

These runs were recorded using my dashcam recording at 30 frames / per second. The still shots are taken from the exact frame the R3 first alerts to the redflex.

The range going into the line of sight of the camera is obviously greater. However, from the opposite direction, the range is much worse.

The difference in range on the different runs is almost certainly caused by a 'lucky' radar reflection from the vehicle sitting closest to the focal point of the redflex. In cases of minimal traffic on the road the range from your detector can be significantly worse.

Conclusion: Although, my initial gut feeling was that the NZ firmware is better on K band, this test pretty much shows that against redflex there is no noticeable difference in sensitivity between the latest two R3 firmware versions. Therefore anyone running US Firmware on their R3 pretty much has the same level of protection against redflex as their NZ Counterparts.

The test also confirms the importance of reflections for radar detectors. A lot of the range you get is caused by a reflection from the radar hitting something. The more sensitive the radar, the easier it is to alert off a reflection. However, it also means comparing different detectors has to be performed under controlled conditions, or else based upon statistical analysis of many encounters.



@DEMON5: Think you might like to see this!
 

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DEMON5

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#14
@Mithheru thanks for the testing! I was reasonably confident that the NZ/A firmware would not change K Band sensitivity...
Looks like with the new Uniden R7 we will be able to sweep low enough to pick up K Band mobile redflex!!!
 

shadow69

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i will definatley be buying a new r7!! auto lockouts and sweep low enough to pick up the mobile cameras. hope mittheru is still able to crack the db as its the same platform. guess time will tell.
 

pezcat19

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LouG is right here.. Even stealth detectors can cause issues for each other.

Any tests done with both running at the same car can be deemed as untrustworthy
All test have been repeated with only a SINGLE detector powered on. There has been NO CHANGE to the results as I have recorded. You can choose to take or leave it, I guess! ;)



--- DOUBLEPOST MERGED ---

i will definatley be buying a new r7!! auto lockouts and sweep low enough to pick up the mobile cameras. hope mittheru is still able to crack the db as its the same platform. guess time will tell.
Your passengers will enjoy using it! :D



@Mithheru - good job on the tests!

.
 

LouG

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All test have been repeated with only a SINGLE detector powered on. There has been NO CHANGE to the results as I have recorded. You can choose to take or leave it, I guess! ;)

.
You did not make that clear. In fact, you only mention that after several posts.
Be more specific in your posts and save us the trouble of questioning your results.
 

CJR238

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No, it's been shown that so called stealthly detectors can interfere with each other.
There has been cases of R3's interfering with V1's. The biggest problem is that the interference is subtle, not causing an alert but reducing detection range, response time and sometimes putting one detector to sleep.
Search the forums and you'll have enough reading for weeks on the issue.
Yes, any 2 RD's can and will interfere with each other. Not sure how stealth the R3 is but even then.

Great info pezcat, and i see you updated that you did test them separately and got the same results. Just does not come across that way, especially for seeing the same results together and separate.
 

pezcat19

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@LouG, you're welcome, and I am glad that you find my testing useful.

Thanks @CJR238 Yep, sorry that I annoyed the forum sheriff's, but anyhow... :)

FYI, I work in the RF engineering field and understand this stuff far better than most.

I will update the first post to mention the confirmation of individual testing.

Wherever possible, all tests have been repeated with only a SINGLE detector powered on. There has been NO CHANGE to the results as I have recorded.

Observation #14 has been added.

Cheers.
 
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Redline 1

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I' ve had 4 Pro A

My latest Pro A manufactured in 2017 has virtually NO k band false.

However it has the highest lazer false of the 4 units I have owned...

I sold my r3. I found that the r3 was very similar, the proA I was running was a 2016 build.

Now run the proA and a 9500IX

The 9500IX is quite hot, and alerts about 1 second quicker....but the PROA has thrashed it once with early detection. For that reason I will be keeping my 2017 copy.
 
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