TMG Testing Results Mk II - 12/1/2018 and 12/2/2018

Discussion in 'Countermeasure Testing & Related Videos' started by PY004, Dec 2, 2018.

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  1. Dukes

    Dukes Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Big thanks to NYCTG and @PY004 for this testing!



    I don't think it's ready for the market after viewing all the relevant threads and testing. Beyond the jamming limitations, people are seeing CPU's locking up and heads burning out which tells me there is still a fair bit of work to be done. My opinion that it's not ready for the market doesn't impede you from running the system so I see no reason to get mad at any comments like that. With that said, I do think TMG will eventually fix this, but it's off to a rough start IMHO.
     
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  2. thanks

    thanks for all the fish Advanced User Acceptus Premium Member

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    You are free to purchase whatever you want, I don't think anyone is stopping you. Hey who'd think that people would still be buying VE!L (this is no means is intended to "smear" TMG or insinuate that it is as worthless as ve!l. I AM just pointing out you can spend your money where you want, regardless of what others say, prove or otherwise.)
     
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  3. BlueV1

    BlueV1 10th gear Intermediate User Premium Member

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    This is where I was as well. I have only encountered lidar 5-7 times and been shot with it 2 times in 55,000-60,000 miles during the last year.

    I see lidar ramping up a tiny bit so I thought I'd go with a newly released TMG system. My needs aren't crucial and I can sort of be a guinea pig.

    I don't pay a lot of attention, but there are still a few issues that people are having with ALP too. (I happened across one today where it sounds like someone could be running parking mode only and they aren't sure. < I truly don't know for sure but that's my impression. It's being addressed by ALP.)

    The attitude that I'm really unhappy about in any of these threads is the snarky fanboy stuff. I'd think we could all be grown ups here.
     
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  4. astronuts

    astronuts Learning to Drive General User

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    This really got me laughing this morning. They must also qualify with their sidearms too. :))))

    (Chicago, 2016)
    "In 435 shootings over a recent six-year span, officers killed 92 people and wounded 170 others. At least 2,623 bullets were fired by police in 435 shootings. In 235 of those incidents, officers struck at least one person; in another 200 shootings, officers missed entirely." www.chicagotribune.com: 92 deaths, 2,623 bullets: Tracking every Chicago police shooting over 6 years

    This is who is targeting you, so lighten up everyone. They will probably miss or hit the car next to you. Also, I would like to mention that everyone keep OPSEC in mind and not share tactics on how to circumvent a jammer publicly. It needs addressed privately.

    I don't fault the testers here, but at the same time if this were not a comparison of TMG vs. ALP, ALP should have been left out entirely. To simply say the runs with ALP were not done because you knew what the results would be really lost me. Everyone with an iPhone or Android is beta testing for Apple and Google. Bugs and weaknesses will always be found or exploited. Does that make you less likely to use one of their devices? Condoms only protect against most STIs (not the STI from Subaru). So I guess this makes the Dragon Eye the herpes of lidar.
     
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  5. mirage

    mirage RALETC MEMBER Advanced User

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    I think it goes without saying that all of the tests performed by @PY004 and others were never intended to do damage to the manufacturer or their product. In fact if anything these tests are intended to assist the manufacturer in making their product better. If we don’t test you will never know the real capabilities of these products are and will be left with accepting what the manufacturer is telling you which can be nothing more than marketing. I applaud @PY004 and anyone who tests and publishes accurate and repeatable results. I’ve been beat up over the years, but the fact remains we and other community members have been able to back up our test results repeatedly. Everything in @PY004’s testing is consistent with what we have seen in our own testing so I’m confident in the integrity of his results. The community and the manufacturer should take note of the things discovered here and work towards improving the product. The product will speak for itself if it performs as expected.
     
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  6. Jag42

    Jag42 TXCTG RD tester / US Exclusive TMG dealer. Advanced User MFG/Vendor Premium Member

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    One suggestion, is back up some data with videos. If i just put up charts and graphs on the TMG site, everyone would laugh. Most of the lidar testers have the integrity for no videos,but it does make a huge difference.
     
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  7. mirage

    mirage RALETC MEMBER Advanced User

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    I think everyone agrees but not everyone has the type of equipment we use to capture video. It’s difficult trying to do this through a phone or camcorder and focus on targeting. Honestly it doesn’t do TMG any good if the videos are inconsistent with actual targeting because they are trying to keep it in focus or alignment. It makes it easier for the jammer when the lidar operator is too focused on trying to capture good video.
     
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  8. thanks

    thanks for all the fish Advanced User Acceptus Premium Member

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    I'm sure those that 'shoot' lidar and radar do so "at least a few" more times than they discharge their firearm in the line of duty.

    Get behind a lidar, and see how it is, and you can improve every time you do it... I've been targeted where the trooper has a stance resting on his roof shooting lidar! They take it seriously and dont intend on missing...

    upload_2018-12-5_10-36-35.png
     
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  9. Patton250

    Patton250 Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    :ughh:

    I’ve honestly read that three times and I still don’t know what the **** I read.
     
  10. BaileyAB

    BaileyAB Whats PSL? Autobahn bro, A.U.T.O.B.A.H.N.!!!!! Advanced User Premium Member

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    Whoever is still defending TMG at this point is clearly not objective member on this forum and is trying to either influence others for its own benefit or trying to persuade himself to believe that purchasing TMG was a good decision with all these shortcomings (CPU failures, heads overheating, mediocre gun support, weak VPR algo support).
    I am not saying TMG guys can not change this in their favor but these issues were supposed to be solved on the bench or with beta testers as a last line of defense prior than putting the system on the shelf and available to general public.
    However its understandable why with all the hype that was created and was going on around TMG on our forum prior of coming out AS IS, TMG owners and US distributor had a hard time keeping it still on a bench while on the other hand money flow can finally start no matter what.

    I am giving 100% of my support to @PY004 and NYCTG for publishing these results or to anyone with any legit findings/results that can benefit us as CM community or as end-users.
     
  11. synistyr

    synistyr PSL +15 Advanced User

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    Theres a big difference between standing there behind their tripod or aiming a cam out the window and aiming a harmless laser at a big moving vehicle vs being in a kill or be killed situation firing your weapon in a combat situation.

    Anyway 90% of this thread is now way off target. Jag and Sarge and Ming have accepted the results so why can't everyone else. Just means more work to be done.





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  12. Eloi

    Eloi Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Who ever said you cant use it ?
    This choice is 100 % Yours.
    You know your territory , you are free to choose your level of protection.

    Freedom is the capacity to make choice ...you are FREE.
     
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  13. STS134

    STS134 Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    I think this system was over hyped. It seemed that, just because it's being sold by some members of this forum and it was capable of jamming at least some variants of the DET, a lot of people were treating this like it would be another ALP, despite the lack of affirmative evidence. These test results show that it's clearly not even in the same league. Does that mean it's useless? Of course not. But I think its capabilities were misrepresented and a lot of members, including some newbies, bought into the hype.

    Perhaps most disturbing things I've learned the TMG from this thread are the following facts:

    1. If you pull the trigger of a LIDAR gun and then pan over to the vehicle with the TMG, it will cause an IPT. Really? Because I would think this is a very valid real world scenario. LEO pulls the trigger and then tries to center the gun on the car. I expect that this will be addressed eventually with a firmware update. But then there's the next one...

    2. TMG apparently lacks any sort of diagnostic circuitry that will tell you when a diode fails. This is extremely important obviously because it tells you if you aren't being protected, and especially so because the TMG tends to burn out its diodes (and by the way, there are people in Edmonton who get hit multiple times per day with DET guns, what do you think is going to happen to their diodes if they use the TMG?). You don't want to spend $2k on something you'll use maybe once a year? Well guess what? In addition to buying the TMG, buying a LIDAR gun is also required equipment, because you've gotta test that thing regularly to make sure the diodes haven't burned out. And since this is probably a hardware deficiency, no amount of firmware updating can fix it. ALP set a new standard here, 4-5 years ago, and no company that follows it should go without this basic functionality.

    There are plenty of jammers out there, including the Max Ci 360's jammers, that will jam most guns you will see out there when you are driving.

    Anyway, my personal philosophy with this stuff is to always go with the best equipment, if it's permanently installed. My ALP + Max Ci 360 Platform install cost around $2k and that was for a partial install (shop mounted front and rear heads, and connected the front heads to the system, and ran the wires for the rear heads as far as possible). The rear cables weren't long enough to reach, so I told them I'll purchase some extenders and finish the job myself. Well guess what, by the time I had finished (and my portion of the job required running the extender cables through the tubes on the lift gate of my car), 5 hours had passed, and I had blisters on both of my hands from working the wiring through the tubes. And that was just for installing and connecting the extender cables to both ends of the already installed cables. It doesn't include 3D printing the brackets, running the wiring through the firewall, etc. You think I want to go through all of this again, over saving what, $500, if a gun comes out that the system I previously installed can't jam? I don't think I'd take that deal even if it saved me $750-1000! Installing stuff on my car is a royal pain in the a**, and I prefer to do it as few times as possible. And keep in mind, if you're doing the install yourself to save even more money, that's a lot more blisters and pain you have to go through; if you are having it done professionally, it's at least several hundred dollars if not thousands. On my previous car, I modded my headlights with HID projectors, and one of the projectors (bi-xenon HID) had a shield that wouldn't properly drop, and I couldn't get the high beam to turn on. The company told me that I should open it up, pull back a tab, and it would be fine. So I did. I detached the bumper, took the headlight and put it in the oven, softened the glue, opened it up (same process I used to install them the first time), did what they said, and put the car back together. And it still didn't work. Then they emailed me again and told me a different procedure they wanted me to do, and I sent an angry email back to them, telling them that I want them to send me a new part, and I'll send the old one back and they can figure out what's wrong with it, because at this point, I was looking at taking apart my car for the THIRD time at minimum. If they didn't agree to this, I would have gone through the roof. Given the many hours of work that went into this each time, I'd really have preferred to purchase some projectors that worked the first time, even if it was at double the cost ($850 instead of $425). Stuff like this really isn't worth my time. Heck, I got my jammers to SAVE time (just JTK instead of spend time fighting tickets).
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
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  14. badasshughes

    badasshughes Learning to Fly Beginner User

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    And clearly you’re just hating on TMG because you’re a fanboy. Even if this one test was as damning as you want people to believe, it’s just that: ONE TEST.

    On my ONE TEST I found the system performed adequately for me. My heads didn’t burn out of overheat, and my CPU works just fine. Obviously you were looking for a reason to hate TMG and you found it in a single test.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 5, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 5, 2018 ---
    @STS134 those 2 things you mentioned can be fixed with firmware updates tho
     
  15. BaileyAB

    BaileyAB Whats PSL? Autobahn bro, A.U.T.O.B.A.H.N.!!!!! Advanced User Premium Member

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    @badasshughes, you still need a lot of experience, time, testings, lidar hits and saves to grow up, you are still learning to fly as your signature says, so I dont take your comments towards me or anyone in this thread seriously.
    It seems you are a fanboy. But thats just because your lack of experience and more senior users here understand this.

    I have seen this in a stock market, while driving, in an everyday life situations, this year in crypto market for sure when noobs who were buying at the very top all of the sudden found themselves under the water but were telling to themselves its alright, its gonna bounce while on the other hand more experienced traders including myself were selling at the top and started shorting crypto markets. Your statement reminds me on crypto particularly Tron and Verge coin noobs (check out their charts a year ago and now). Lack of knowledge clearly cost them 98% from the ATH of their positions.

    But keep up in this space and learn as much as you can.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
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  16. STS134

    STS134 Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    On one of my drives down Interstate 5, I found that I can do 105 mph and I don't even need CMs. What's your point? A sample size of 1 is not very useful.

    IPT problem yes. Self diagnostic issue, I doubt it. That likely requires hardware support. Unless it's already there and just not being used, it likely cannot be added without a hardware revision.
     
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  17. astronuts

    astronuts Learning to Drive General User

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    Yea, yea. Obviously you've never had range day qualifying with LEOs before. Still remember the range master giving instructions to a woman as she was shouldering her shotgun, turned to look at the person giving the instructions and in the meantime discharged said shotgun mid turn nearly killing us.

    Does ALP have the ability to self diagnose an issue with a head? Does it know if the head is degrading? Meaning, could it pass self check in a degraded state?

    Was ALP immune from issues when it first launched?

    Does the ALP suffer from the same issue where panning from one target to another causes a IPT?

    What's stopping lidar manufactures from developing a new gun that ALP and TMG can't jam? No need to answer this, it's rhetorical.

    Good god, some of you are so sensitive. I am still reading up on everything, and only ask the above questions because I don't know. I do however have to be quite honest about something. Any driver speeding with TMG, ALP, Blinder, or anything that does so blindly with such faith in their system has absolutely no business having a driver's license.
     
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  18. badasshughes

    badasshughes Learning to Fly Beginner User

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    Yea that’s my point exactly. This is ONE test with what seems like one car aka one setup.

    I presume heads cannot be fired individually, but banks of heads can likely be tested. Time will tell.

    I don’t need you to condescend to me or talk cryptos. As it stands, you’re responding to my post count not the actual content of my comment, which is kind of ridiculous. Come back when you can speak like an adult to an adult.

    Cheers
     
  19. benzr

    benzr Been there done that !! Original V1 user !! Advanced User

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    Thanks its my signature !!!!

    BUT UNFORTUNATELY FOR YOU GUYS I CAN ONLY HIGHLIGHT NOT YELL get w the times !! When im on my computer.

    And Lately it has been very rarely i can get on my computer. Anytime i am waiting for inspectors all i can do is as you so eloquently put it (so 2010 of ya)
    Is to yell or as us more up to date peeps call it HIGHLIGHTING a point.

    Now as to the first time abuse ...

    Tell me HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU THINK YOUR LAZERS FIRED EACH DAY ????

    Yeah I thought so. So in normal encounters ... your Lazers dont get tested the equivalent of 3-4 hours at a time. Hmmmmmmmm.

    Just saying I dont think the testors realized how damaging the constant parade of hits were for a EXTREMELY BRIGHT and EXTREMELY HOT condition the Diodes were exposed to.

    Maybe the ALPs can handle that

    VIDEO PLEASE !!!!!

    That still isnt even slightly indicative of a Real World Encounter , especially in Atlanta !!!DRAGON EYE Corp Headquarters.

    Btw: What areas in Atlanta were you travelling?
    Where did you go?
    What streets did you go on?
    What Malls if any did you pass?

    Just saying in all my years of ALP usage my shots are waaaaaay out. NOT EVEN 0NE CLOSE AMBUSH in Lazer !!!

    Benzr


    Posted from my iPhone using the RDF Mobile App!
     
  20. STS134

    STS134 Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Again, this depends on how the hardware is built. The LI could only fire all heads at once (both front and rear), or none at all. The ALP can fire heads individually. TMG? I'm not sure.
     
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