TMG Testing Results Mk II - 12/1/2018 and 12/2/2018

Discussion in 'Countermeasure Testing & Related Videos' started by PY004, Dec 2, 2018.

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  1. PY004

    PY004 Moderator Moderator Advanced User Premium Member

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    Johnboy thinks somehow that the presense of the ALP test results where the number of ALP runs do not equal the number of TMG runs invalidates the test. As a result, all ALP test runs has been removed.

    NYCTG just did a full testing of TMG and ALP against a variety of guns in service today. Both devices were running the latest algorithms and are retail samples. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the following people in no particular order.
    • @Adriankapl for providing the retail ALP system and vehicle.
    • @sas92 provided the vehicle in which TMG was tested.
    • @mirage for his for providing his advice on testing and methodologies
    • @Vortex for his professional advice on how to report our results.
    • @RedRocket for inspiring me to become a better tester.
    • @InsipidMonkey for providing TMG heads to test.
    • 2 anonymous members also provided guns and TMG systems to test and I would like to thank them also although they decided to remain anonymous.

    • Special Thanks goes to @Jag42 for being the nicest guy out there. I know he's a manufacturer, but he's a stand up guy and I really appreciate everything you've done for us during the beta testing times. I know this result may impact you in really big ways and I know you're going through a lot. Hang in there buddy.
    No manufacturers were involved in this test, nor did any of them provide any guns for use. All the members who were involved in the testing have no relations with ALP, or TMG and have no financial incentives.
    • Andrew21 - Andrew21 installs ALP systems on the side, however, he will install whatever system you bring him to install without question. Andrew runs ALP as his primary laser defense.
    • PY004- I run ALP and is not affiliated with any manufacturer. However, I will acknowledge I am biased when it comes to NoLimits as they have taken really good care of me. Thankfully we did not test anything related to NoLimits.
    • Sas92 runs TMG.
    • Adriankapl runs ALP but has tried TMG in the past.
    Head Sensitivity Tests

    NYCTG has performed head sensitivity tests of ALP and TMG using the methodologies used by Mirage located here 2015 RALETC LIDAR RECEIVER SENSITIVITY TESTING – RALETC. Please read it for details. These tests were conducted approximately 2 weeks ago. I would like to thank insipidMonkey for providing the heads used in this test.

    ALP: 88"
    TMG Head 1: 17" *beta sample - second generation
    TMG Head 2: 52" *beta sample - first generation
    TMG Head 3: 18" *beta sample - second generation
    TMG Head 4: 66" *beta sample - first generation
    TMG Head 5: 18" *beta sample - second generation
    TMG Head 6: 18"
    TMG Head 7: 18"
    TMG Head 8: 18"

    These tests are roughly in line with results obtained by Mirage in his testing located at www.rdforum.org: RALETC Tests the TMG-A15. Thank you Mirage for providing me details on your methodology.

    Distance Testing

    TMG - 3 Heads
    ALP - 2 Standard + 1 TX

    Results from multiple days are combined into one. Videos were taken but they were not of sufficiently high quality. New videos will be taken in the next few days and uploaded. It's not easy trying to record a gun through the optics.

    Note: For the TMG, re-triggering the gun or panning from one vehicle to another may result in IPT. The lock is maintained down the course. The retail CPUs also had a tendency to lock up and fail to jam requiring a restart after each run. Jamming performance is also very inconsistent and you may get different results every run.

    Testing Results 1
    TMG: with 3 heads
    ALP: Mercedes GLS550 with 2 Standard + 1 TX
    upload_2018-12-5_0-18-53.png

    Testing Results 2
    TMG: Nissan Versa with 3 heads
    ALP: Ford Police Interceptor with 2 Standard + 1 TX
    upload_2018-12-5_0-19-10.png

    Invalidated Results
    The following results were invalidated but provided here for reference. They were invalidated as we found out that the TMG heads had burnt out.
    upload_2018-12-5_0-19-59.png




    To save time, these tables were copied and pasted and then edited to reflect the correct value. I may have made a copy paste mistake somewhere.


    Heads IR View - These are what the heads look like under IR light. I forgot to take a ND filter of so it's grainy. I will replace them with new pictures when I get the chance.

    ALP TX Head - 3 diodes, two horizontal diodes flanking a single vertical diode. Only the horizontal diodes fire when countering a DET gun.
    upload_2018-12-2_18-48-37.png

    ALP Standard Head - 4 receiver diodes in a faraday cage and a single horizontal diode. When in a 2 Standard + 1 TX configuration, the diode does not fire when countering a DET. They fire against all other guns tested.
    upload_2018-12-2_18-49-45.png

    TMG - 1 horizontal diode and 2 receive diodes. The other diode lens is empty.
    upload_2018-12-2_18-51-56.png upload_2018-12-4_13-53-10.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
  2. PY004

    PY004 Moderator Moderator Advanced User Premium Member

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    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
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  3. LeoGetz14

    LeoGetz14 Avoiding Speed Traps Beginner User

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    Thank you @PY004 and the NYCTG gang for all your efforts.:thumbsup:
     
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  4. thebravo

    thebravo Security Detachment Security Attaché Advanced User Premium Member

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    Excellent testing results, ALP is very solid for sure! TMG looks decent on some guns, but not as much on others... considering they are new to some of these thats not fully surprising, that said the Stalker XLR results surprised me a little, hopefully they can address those to get them sorted out.
     
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  5. The Only Sarge

    The Only Sarge 7 decades of hauling ass Advanced User MFG/Vendor

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    Great job Paul. Thank you for your time and effort doing this.
    The "new" hybrid head address the short distance PT's your seeing on the TMG with some guns.
    Ming is on it like ugly on Hillary.
    Great job!
     
  6. Jag42

    Jag42 TXCTG RD tester / US Exclusive TMG dealer. Advanced User MFG/Vendor Premium Member

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    Thanks for the testing Gentlemen ! We know the gaps to fill, and the variants of the DE,and XLR. 7 months in the USA, and we are not stopping to get all the guns covered.
     
  7. synistyr

    synistyr PSL +15 Advanced User

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    Did you guys notice a better setup position during testing for the TMGs?

    Right now I have a V shape 3 sensor setup on the front but might go to more of on plane setup.

    @angrypenguin mentioned he was getting PTs with the V shape also and an A shape would be better.








    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  8. milkman

    milkman Premium Member Advanced User Acceptus Premium Member

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    Nice Job of testing guys! Thanks for sharing!
     
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  9. Jag42

    Jag42 TXCTG RD tester / US Exclusive TMG dealer. Advanced User MFG/Vendor Premium Member

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    My "A" setup has been solid.
     
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  10. thanks

    thanks for all the fish Advanced User Acceptus Premium Member

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    @PY004 and all involved, thanks for the testing! Looks like a brutal number of runs! Can you just explain the course and how the runs were done? When I had my car tested, I would drive the course 3 times towards the shooter, and each time he would target only one of the positions: DHL, CM, and PHL (if I had rears, he would shoot the rears as I would head back to the starting point).
    THanks again!
     
  11. PY004

    PY004 Moderator Moderator Advanced User Premium Member

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    It was crazy amount of runs. It took multiple days. Course is a 2000ft long. I was uninterested in results over 1000ft, so the course was split in half and the driver went back and forth on the entire stretch. That allowed us to test much quicker than normal. But obviously conditions are no longer held completely constant so the entire test loses a little bit of credibility. But that was okay since we were testing over multiple days and conditions were not going to stay constant over all that anyways. The road is wide, with no reflective targets other than license plate of cars parked on the road and the street signs. Quiet residential area so not much traffic.

    As for the targeting, it was mono-pod stabilized for the ALP test and handheld for the TMG test. So that means I gave TMG a little bit of an advantage. For each run, only a single part of the vehicle was targeted.

    Fewer runs were done for ALP since we know it pretty much JTG on everything. Perhaps in the future we will revisit it with a more extensive test. I just don't really feel the need for it due to its proven track record.
     
  12. Andrew21

    Andrew21 "All Blade, All The Time" Administrator Advanced User Premium Member

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    Moving thread to countermeasure and testing forum
     
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  13. Jon at Radenso

    Jon at Radenso Premium Member Advanced User MFG/Vendor Premium Member

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    It never ceases to amaze me the incredible effort that members put into testing here. Well done. Something like this takes hours and hours to accomplish.
     
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  14. LexusISF

    LexusISF Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    First off thanks to all the testers and all your hard work, really appreciate it. Also great you guys also recognized others who contributed.

    Some of the ALP tests showed no data, ex. LTI TruSpeed S?

    Tmg, recognized areas for improvement, responded professionally, and if they release the proposed hybrid head it hopefully will close the gap upon re-testing. The gauntlet has been throw...
     
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  15. PY004

    PY004 Moderator Moderator Advanced User Premium Member

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    Any gray boxes mean no data. This usually means it wasn't tested. But I also had to throw out one or two results as I started shooting before the vehicle had reached the speed necessary to trigger the TX and therefore wasn't a true PT.
     
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  16. LexusISF

    LexusISF Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Thanks.
     
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  17. Vortex

    Vortex Making Videos Administrator Advanced User Premium Member

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    Wow, that’s a TON of work all put together. Thank you for all your time and energy you put into this and making these results available to us all!
     
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  18. surprisinguy

    surprisinguy Government can only give what it takes... Advanced User Premium Member

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    Whew! Thanks for the time given for testing. Looks like Ming has some work to do.
     
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  19. mirage

    mirage RALETC MEMBER Advanced User

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    Very nice work. Looks very similar to what I’ve been seeing. I’m waiting on a firmware update from TMG before I retest. Thanks for the hard work I know how much it takes to do all of this.
     
  20. Jag42

    Jag42 TXCTG RD tester / US Exclusive TMG dealer. Advanced User MFG/Vendor Premium Member

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    Do you guys have pics of the TMG 3 head placement?

    Thanks
     
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