Mechanic said that I have 4 warp rotors...how do I engage them? I thought warp was not yet invented

Discussion in 'Car Discussion' started by tempnexus, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. tempnexus

    tempnexus City 17 Rep Intermediate User Premium Member

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    Based on my history class the warp was invented mid-21st century by Zefram Cochrane so how can I have warp rotors on my car?
     
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  2. dudeinnz

    dudeinnz NZCTG Moderator Advanced User Premium Member

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  3. CPB

    CPB Left Lane for Passing Only Intermediate User

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    Rotors usually don't actually warp, but will get uneven wear/deposits causing the shudder. That's why "turning" them on a lathe fixes it, since otherwise you'd true up the surface, but the underlying material is still warped.

    Often times properly bedding the pads to the rotor cures any "warp." that may be felt under braking.
     
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  4. Holla

    Holla Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Is your brake pedal or steering wheel wobbling when you brake, especially on the highway? You might have warped rotors.

    Your rotors are those round discs you might be able to see through the spaces in your rim. When you hit the brake, the brake pads clamp the rotor to bring your vehicle to a stop. Rotors are supposed to be flat and smooth, but a number of factors can cause warpage and compromise your vehicle’s ability to brake.

    WHAT CAUSES WARPED ROTORS?
    Most of the time, warped rotors are caused by excessive heating. What’s causing the excessive heating? A technician would need to run some tests to diagnose the cause, but it could be a few things:

    • Brake system issues
      If your back brakes aren’t working, for example, your front brakes will work even harder, heating up your rotors. Or maybe you’ve got a sticky caliper (the mechanism that houses and operates your brake pads).
      Note: If your shocks are not performing as designed, they can also be the root cause of rotor warpage as excessive weight shifts to the front design braking.
    • Driving habits
      If you live in a city where you’re hard on your brakes either because of the hilly terrain or the traffic, it can take a toll on the performance of your brake system.
    • Over-torqueing
      Any time you have a wheel installed and someone hasn’t torqued your wheel up properly, that can put stress on your rotor.
    Any one of these problems can lead to the excessive heating that’s warping your rotor. Rotors are a cast metal and the heat generated by braking can release the stress of the casting. That’s when your rotors will warp, especially if they’re thin from wear. You might not be able to see your warped rotors, but you’ll probably be able to feel it.

    HOW TO TELL IF YOU HAVE WARPED ROTORS
    Rotors are normally flat and smooth, and as the brake pads clamp down on them, your wheels stop. When they’re warped, your brake pads can’t clamp your rotor as easily. That’s why you’ll feel a shudder on the brake pedal when you try to stop, especially at high speeds when your rotors are rotating faster.

    You might notice a vibration on the steering wheel as well, especially if it’s your front rotors that are warped. The more warped your rotor is, the more severely you’ll feel that shake on your foot or your hands.

    WHAT CAN YOU DO IF YOU HAVE WARPED ROTORS?
    You have two choices: replace them, or machine them. Warped rotors, if they’re thick enough, can be turned in a machining process that uses a lathe to smooth the rotor. Unfortunately, since it’s a stressed metal, your rotor can return to its old, warped shape.

    It’s usually best to replace your rotors after a technician at your nearest Kal Tire service centre has made a proper diagnosis and fixed any other problems with your brakes that could be leading your rotors to warp.





    The typical situation: New pads are fitted to a new pair of brake discs. A week later there’s a vibration or “judder” when the brakes are applied. A call to a mechanically inclined friend and an online search offers the diagnosis—the brake rotors are warped.

    12429b4e0bdb28af61b54d1444d15a0f.jpeg
    Feeling some shudder in the steering wheel when applying the brakes? Conventional wisdom says that the rotors are warped, but really you might have a problem with friction material transfer. Don't worry, though, as the fix is relatively simple.

    The diagnosis may be further verified by measuring the surface of the discs to see if they vary in thickness. Some customers have the discs turned on a brake lathe to remove the high spots. That stops the vibration, apparently proving that the discs were warped. Except that the symptoms come back in a couple of weeks.

    Now the frustrated and disappointed customer calls Moss Technical Services or simply returns the brake discs as defective.

    The fact is: The discs were never warped at all. Every warped brake disc that we’ve investigated with the assistance of our suppliers shows uneven patches of friction material from the brake pads on the surface of the disc. These patches cause variation in thickness (run-out) and the vibration under braking. Brake manufacturers have been struggling to deal with this situation for years because warped discs are so readily blamed for brake-related vibrations.

    To understand what’s taking place, let’s look at what happens when we step on the brake pedal. The pads press against the surface of the disc, converting the energy of motion into the energy of heat through friction. What you may not know is that there are two kinds of friction at work: abrasive and adherent.

    Abrasive Friction: According to Carroll Smith, author of “The Warped Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System,” abrasive friction involves breaking the crystalline bonds of both the pad material and the cast iron of the disc. Breaking these bonds generates the heat of friction. In abrasive friction, the bonds between the crystals of the pad material (and to a lesser extent, the disc material) are permanently broken. The harder material wears the softer away, meaning the disc wears the pad. When we see the word friction, it is abrasive friction that comes to mind.

    Adherent Friction: When brake pads press against the surface of the steel disc, some of the pad material transfers directly to the surface of the disc forming a thin, uniform layer. The surface of the steel disc and the surface of the brake pad become identical in composition. As the disc moves between the pads, friction material transfers in both directions, breaking and reforming bonds at the molecular level. This transfer of material in both directions is a normal and essential part of braking friction.

    12429b4e0bdb28af61b54d1444d15a0f.jpeg
    Running the right brake pads and properly bedding them in will often cure any shudder. This can easily be an afternoon project.

    Pad Material: Brake pads all use a combination of abrasive and adherent friction during braking. Pad material differs based on the manufacturer’s specifications, which are always attempting to balance performance, wear, noise, and to a lesser extent, dust. There must be enough abrasive elements to keep the disc surface clean, and the pads must provide uniform adherent friction material transfer to the disc within the intended temperature range.

    Uneven Friction Material Transfer: Pads that are used beyond their intended temperature range will cause problems. Pads can be heated to the point where they transfer friction material to the disc in random, uneven patches. The thick and thin layers are not generally visible, but the driver can feel vibration and measure it with a dial indicator. Modern brake pads are engineered with the best possible combination of features, but they are still limited to their intended range of operating temperatures.

    Pad Selection: Generally, there are street, performance and racing brake pads, and most quality pads have broader temperature ranges than pads made 10 years ago. However, no street pads are suitable for racing, and no racing pads are suitable for the street. Performance street pads are a compromise—they’re more effective at low temperatures than racing pads and they can operate at higher temperatures than street pads.

    Where to Start: If you have vibration under braking with new discs and pads, first eliminate the obvious by making sure that the hub and wheel flange are flat, clean, and rust free. A miniscule amount of run-out here will be magnified at the edge of the brake disc. Verify that disc mounting hardware is in good condition, installed correctly, and tightened in the correct order according to the recommended torque specification.

    Bedding-In Your Brakes
    When new pads and brake discs are fitted, the most important thing you can do to prevent problems is to properly bed the brakes. This critical step is the initial transfer of friction material from the pad to the disc forming a smooth, uniform layer. It establishes a foundation that’s essential for proper brake performance. It minimizes the chance of laying down uneven, random patches of friction material which will be felt as vibration when the brakes are applied.
    All high-performance discs and pads should come with installation and break-in instructions. The procedures are similar for all major manufacturers.
    Since you don’t come to a complete stop during pad or disc break-in, you have to plan where and when you do this procedure for safety purposes. If you come to a complete stop before the break-in process is completed, there is a chance that nonuniform pad material transfer or pad imprinting will take place, resulting in an irritating vibration during braking.

    Basic Bed-In Procedure
    1. After installing new disc rotors and/or brake pads, perform eight to 10 slowdowns applying moderate pressure from about 30 to 40 mph (50 to 60 kph) without coming to a stop.
    2. Make an additional two or three slowdowns applying heavy pressure from about 40 to 45 mph (60 to 70 kph) without coming to a stop.
    3. DO NOT DRAG THE BRAKES.
    4. Allow at least 15 minutes for the brake system to cool down.
    5. While the car is at rest during cool-down, DO NOT APPLY THE BRAKES. If you do, material will transfer from the pads to the rotor and probably give you braking vibration.

    After Brakes Are Bedded-In

    12429b4e0bdb28af61b54d1444d15a0f.jpeg
    Slotted rotors reduce brake fade and pad material build-up on the rotor surface.

    At this point, your new disc rotors and/or pads are ready for normal use with a thin, uniform coating of friction material on the rotors. But the full process of building up the friction layer can take 190 to 300 miles (300 to 500 kms) depending on your driving style. There are two situations you should try to avoid during that time, as they can ruin that fragile friction coating, requiring another round of bedding-in.
    First, if you drive gently over a period of time with little heavy braking, you can actually strip off the necessary thin layer of friction material on the surface of the disc. This makes your brakes vulnerable to problems again. You can restore it by repeating the bedding-in procedure.
    Second, if you have an incident where you are driving at high speed and have to brake hard coming to a complete stop with your foot on the brake pedal, the pads will imprint on the disc surface, transferring what seems like a hunk of friction material. This uneven material will cause vibration.
    You can generally get rid of the excess material with abrasive friction by repeating the bedding-in process. If it’s a bad imprint and you can’t get rid of it this way, take your car to a shop with an on-car brake lathe. This process returns the discs to dead flat and then you can re-bed.
    So bedding-in may not be a one-time deal, but it will work with patience. If you continue to have trouble, contact Moss Technical Services.
    Note: Classic Gold brake pads come with complete bedding-in instructions that you can read online at mossmotors.com—search Classic Gold
     
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  5. Chris KH2PM

    Chris KH2PM AV8R General User Premium Member

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  6. grayman

    grayman Premium Member Intermediate User Premium Member

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    I concur with CPB

    I used to be able to get away with poor braking habits, however once I moved to an area with insane stop and go highway traffic I had to adapt. I avoid at all costs a hard brake to a full stop, this is what causes pad transfer and "warp". If I have to brake hard from high speed I will brake harder so I can let up and roll, then gently stop if at all possible. This alone has greatly extended rotor life and eliminated "warped" rotors for me.
     
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  7. omgboost

    omgboost Left Lane Hog Security Attaché Advanced User Premium Member

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    Did you still not change the brakes yet? Do you feel any of the symptoms of warped rotors???
     
  8. Tallyho

    Tallyho Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    I think these guys are taking your post far too literally, Temp.
     
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  9. dudeinnz

    dudeinnz NZCTG Moderator Advanced User Premium Member

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    Well it is not in off-topic, so safe to assume @tempnexus is actually asking a legit question :p. :banme:
     
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  10. tempnexus

    tempnexus City 17 Rep Intermediate User Premium Member

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    Ok so it starts to shudder greatly once I go faster than 70mph is that an indication that I am about to warp? I don't want to go over 88mph since I don't have any way to set time and I don't want to endup in some weird place. I know that when Chuck Yager broke the sound barrier he said that his plane was begin to shudder right at the breakthrough point and then it became all quiet, although the handing was very rough at supersponic speeds. So does thw shuddering after 70mph means that the 4 warp rotors are about to engage?
     
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  11. CPB

    CPB Left Lane for Passing Only Intermediate User

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    I figure it was based on an actual car problem turned into a joke about warp speed, so answered the part that could be truth.
     
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  12. tempnexus

    tempnexus City 17 Rep Intermediate User Premium Member

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    Thank you and it was very informative. yeah I had warped rottors when I braked suddenly on the road to avoid a dude skidding into intersection. After that my rotors were never the same and had to have them replaced.

    Also I think the shop fcked with the ABS sensor since now at random times if I take a sharp left turn and then straighten out the ABS turns on when I press the breaks. So it's scary as fck since the ABS ads few xtra feet of stopping distance to my actual stopping distance.
     
  13. CPB

    CPB Left Lane for Passing Only Intermediate User

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    Next time try bedding them in by gradually building up heat from some repeated braking from 60 - 40.

    You should actually bed in all new pads/rotors for better performance and longer life.
     
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  14. tempnexus

    tempnexus City 17 Rep Intermediate User Premium Member

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    Cool will try that out soon, currently city commuting.

    Yeah I think I bedded them just by driving down from Los Alamos to Santa Fe since the hill is a steep one and one has to basically ride the breaks.
     
  15. PointerCone

    PointerCone M3 Kng Advanced User Premium Member

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    You've been surfing??:tubular:
     
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  16. surprisinguy

    surprisinguy Government can only give what it takes... Intermediate User Premium Member

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    I'm pretty sure warp 4 is gonna cost more than warp 1
     
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  17. CJR238

    CJR238 -CMS Article Admin- Administrator Advanced User Premium Member

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    Still got to work on your thread titles tempnexus. :p
     
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  18. tempnexus

    tempnexus City 17 Rep Intermediate User Premium Member

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    Make it so



    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 8, 2018 ---
    Do I need to change my coolant since it looks kind of low in the engine holes?
    4c6a8b09e40dfdc590f082c049eaca7e.jpeg
     
  19. imaitguy

    imaitguy Premium Member Beginner User Premium Member

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    You'd need a flux capacitor installed for 88mph to be an issue. Do you have one of those?
     
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  20. tempnexus

    tempnexus City 17 Rep Intermediate User Premium Member

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    Don't know. Do I need the radiator to create plutonium?
     
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