K-Band - keeps getting higher and higher

benzr

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oldcelt

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My all-time high frequency readout on (LEO) K band was an unmarked pickup (with a customer) running 24.209 on Route 4 in Vermont (between Killington and Bridgewater) about 1 & 1/2 yrs ago.
 

9C1Driver

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It is not such a far-fetched idea. Companies keep upping their game to defeat 'sensors', why not detectors? Do I think it would be a higher level exec, doubt it, more so a very ambitious employee trying to work his way up presenting ideas to improve the product and help market it to the leo community.
I think right now radar gun company's are staying up to date with laser and newer KA band guns. Since K band is a single frequency +/- a small bit of range for error I don't see them setting guns close to the edge of where they can legally transmit. This would be a bad thing for them if units were to drift outside the FCC legal K band range. I don't see a company wanting to take that chance so they will tune as close to the correct K band frequency as possible.

The band to take advantage of from a company stand point is KA band. If KA is divided up into 10 segments all they would have to do is change the assembly line frequency every 3 weeks jumping from segment to segment. Right now I think they pretty much use 3 set KA frequency's. See the chart below. If they mixed it up using all 10 segments that would be a real pain in the a$$ for detector users.

Ka1 = 33.392 - 33.704
Ka2 = 33.704 - 33.896 MPH 33.8 Ka
Ka3 = 33.886 - 34.198
Ka4 = 34.184 - 34.592
Ka5 = 34.592 - 34.808 Stalker 34.7 Ka
Ka6 = 34.806 - 35.166
Ka7 = 35.143 - 35.383
Ka8 = 35.378 - 35.618 Kustom / Decatur 35.5 ka
Ka9 = 35.595 - 35.835
Ka10 = 35.830 - 35.998

Building on what you were saying though if for some strange reason they did want to think outside the box they might try the following.. Radar gun company's could try to market X band guns again claiming most detector users are turning X band off. They could also push K band guns claiming the signal will get lost in a sea of CAS and BSM signals. Since maybe 10% of cars on the road run a detector I don't really see any of the above happening. If anything they will jump ahead to newer technology. Heck today if I was an officer in a small town that had a large highway run past it I would have the department buy me a moving X band system with front and rear antenna. 100% legal on frequency and you would catch detector equipped cars all day long because most are running lo or no X.
 
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westwind77

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Since K band is a single frequency +/- a small bit of range for error I don't see them setting guns close to the edge of where they can legally transmit. This would be a bad thing for them if units were to drift outside the FCC legal K band range. I don't see a company wanting to take that chance so they will tune as close to the correct K band frequency as possible..
That is a very good point, and I can see that possibly being a main reason for not wanting to do it. Then again the LEO's in my town running around with K-band have yet to drift more than a few thousandths over the last couple years.
 

DrHow

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NPark

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No. No elevation needed


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westwind77

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.....and I guess I should have said lower as well......MA State Trooper running 24.101 this afternoon.
 

NPark

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I have to say I’m fortunate there’s no k band in my immediate area(NJ-side) anyway.

K band is an annoying PITA. #1 because it’s usually a false, #2 if you’re in an area where it’s real, and you have to decide where it’s real.

I hate k band.


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64pvolvo1800

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LEOs have used K band since before BSM systems were invented. If you're talking about the guns lining up with common Acura/Honda falses, I think it's much more likely to be random chance than any sort of coordinated effort by LEOs to be sneaky.

For low powered, linearly polarized K band guns, I'm not even sure how they would go about tuning them. I think the frequency in that case is just a function of voltage being applied to the oscillator. I think I'll test this out at some point with my Falcon HR.
Unfortunately, my Benz AMG is broadcasting 24.200 all over the place and I have my ALP/STiR antenna ignoring K entirely. I use my Redline for K too so I see the freq since ALP doesn't give the freq when it's muting K.
 

NorEaster18

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.....and I guess I should have said lower as well......MA State Trooper running 24.101 this afternoon.
The few times I've seen MA troopers running K, it's usually been down pretty low. Always makes me think twice about K Narrow on road trips home.
 

cihkal

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I think it goes Ku(nder) from 12-18 GHz, then K from 18-27 GHz, and finally Ka(bove) from 26.5 - 40 GHz, so it could be even worse o_O

One thing I've found that's nice if you're a V1 user is setting K narrow from 24.100 - 24.200 so that most of the LEOs you come across that run K will be handled however you have your native K muting configured. The ones that run high will at least still provide a visual when running an app too. Highest LEO I've seen was 24.198 in my areas.
 

InsipidMonkey

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Unfortunately, my Benz AMG is broadcasting 24.200 all over the place and I have my ALP/STiR antenna ignoring K entirely. I use my Redline for K too so I see the freq since ALP doesn't give the freq when it's muting K.
Interesting! What year is your Benz? I've seen the older first-gen Distronic systems running on K band, but nothing since the mid-90s.
 

Leadfut

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I think right now radar gun company's are staying up to date with laser and newer KA band guns. Since K band is a single frequency +/- a small bit of range for error I don't see them setting guns close to the edge of where they can legally transmit. This would be a bad thing for them if units were to drift outside the FCC legal K band range. I don't see a company wanting to take that chance so they will tune as close to the correct K band frequency as possible.

The band to take advantage of from a company stand point is KA band. If KA is divided up into 10 segments all they would have to do is change the assembly line frequency every 3 weeks jumping from segment to segment. Right now I think they pretty much use 3 set KA frequency's. See the chart below. If they mixed it up using all 10 segments that would be a real pain in the a$$ for detector users.

Ka1 = 33.392 - 33.704
Ka2 = 33.704 - 33.896 MPH 33.8 Ka
Ka3 = 33.886 - 34.198
Ka4 = 34.184 - 34.592
Ka5 = 34.592 - 34.808 Stalker 34.7 Ka
Ka6 = 34.806 - 35.166
Ka7 = 35.143 - 35.383
Ka8 = 35.378 - 35.618 Kustom / Decatur 35.5 ka
Ka9 = 35.595 - 35.835
Ka10 = 35.830 - 35.998

Building on what you were saying though if for some strange reason they did want to think outside the box they might try the following.. Radar gun company's could try to market X band guns again claiming most detector users are turning X band off. They could also push K band guns claiming the signal will get lost in a sea of CAS and BSM signals. Since maybe 10% of cars on the road run a detector I don't really see any of the above happening. If anything they will jump ahead to newer technology. Heck today if I was an officer in a small town that had a large highway run past it I would have the department buy me a moving X band system with front and rear antenna. 100% legal on frequency and you would catch detector equipped cars all day long because most are running lo or no X.
I think word would eventually get out. There are some areas of New Jersey where they still run X and it's widely known about. Also, going back to X band would actually be really nice because no supermarket doors are on X band any more and none of the adaptive cruise/collision detect systems are on X-band so it would have very few falses.

Maybe you were just putting this in a public forum to try to get some PD to implement it... perhaps I should have kept my mouth shut! :laugh:
 

Kiwi H2

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Many times I have tried to explain, your RD frequency is only a guide and only accurate to within at best 1/8 Ghz. It takes $40k lab equipment to get the centre frequency of cop radar. Just a stable oscillator for those K & Ka bands would cost more than the most expensive RD. Nobody mentions the speed at they read these frequency's nor the correction for Doppler shift. One of my Stalkers has one Gunn at 34.7 and the other at 34.73. That's so when they are both on they don't interfere with each other. Interestingly the 34.73 Gunn being tuned higher is slightly at less power, about 3db down. This is because the tuned circuits will only work over a small range and it is beyond a tech's budget to move them to far. I would suggest that it would have to be sent back to the factory. Quite impractical to regularly change frequency's.
 

RadarSammich

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Your way overthinking this. K band has been around for about 40 years now. Radar gun company's could care less about BSM false signals and what frequencies they are on.

--- DOUBLEPOST MERGED ---



Dude please. Don't make rediculous claims like this. There are new forum members that don't know any better that might actually believe you.
It's what I would do if I was making a competitive product, know your enemies/competition. It's intel gathering,. I do the same when planning routes across the country, I look at segments used, topography, types of enforcement, traffic patterns, dodging DOT, etc.
 

drtoddw

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Grandville, MI PD 24.188
Ottawa County (MI) sheriff 24.226
K-band is increasingly used (35.5 as well)
 

westwind77

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InsipidMonkey

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Many times I have tried to explain, your RD frequency is only a guide and only accurate to within at best 1/8 Ghz.
I'd say most modern RDs are accurate to within a few MHz, and unit to unit variation is fairly low (eg both my R3 and V1 read the same frequency to the MHz when tested against the same source).

Nobody mentions the speed at they read these frequency's nor the correction for Doppler shift.
The Doppler shift at any land based speed is negligible (a few kHz tops) compared to the error of the detector (~1MHz).

One of my Stalkers has one Gunn at 34.7 and the other at 34.73. That's so when they are both on they don't interfere with each other.
They don't need nearly that level of separation to not interfere with each other. You could probably tune both by hand so they read the same frequency to the MHz on your detector and not have any interference, due to the magnitude of the Doppler shift being so low.

Interestingly the 34.73 Gunn being tuned higher is slightly at less power, about 3db down. This is because the tuned circuits will only work over a small range and it is beyond a tech's budget to move them to far. I would suggest that it would have to be sent back to the factory. Quite impractical to regularly change frequency's.
Lots of testing done on this actually, and it's not hard at all.
See here: https://www.rdforum.org/index.php?threads/66606/
and here for a bunch of testing done with "de-tuned" antennas: www.rdforum.org: TXCTG - Max 360c Ka33.8. 34.7, 35.5, and K-band Testing Waco Pioneer 11-04-2017
 

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