Answers to common RD issues/concerns

Discussion in 'Content Management System: General Discussion' started by CJR238, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. CJR238

    CJR238 -CMS Article Admin- Administrator Advanced User Premium Member

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    Looking to compile answers to common RD issues like "why didn't my RD alert to the LEO" "I am getting really short detection's sometimes, why?

     
  2. LexusISF

    LexusISF Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Add; if possible provide a picture(s)
     
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  3. thebravo

    thebravo Security Detachment Security Attaché Advanced User Premium Member

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    Well I know Vortex has done some videos on the topics of why didn't RD alert near a cop, and such... perhaps link in some of those references as well.




     
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  4. CJR238

    CJR238 -CMS Article Admin- Administrator Advanced User Premium Member

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    Ideally short Q & A will be easier to find ones issue and solve it. Love videos, and we can link them as well but the standard Q & A would be ideal.
     
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  5. thebravo

    thebravo Security Detachment Security Attaché Advanced User Premium Member

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    I can attempt to write some succinct responses you can use once I'm home tonight, if no one else beats me to it
     
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  6. Choose Life

    Choose Life 35.5 hater R3 Day One User Advanced User Premium Member

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    Your work wont be lost
    It needs multiple people to write post tweak and add
     
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  7. thebravo

    thebravo Security Detachment Security Attaché Advanced User Premium Member

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    Ok here's some blurbs, feel free to tweak, modify or not use if it's not what you needed :)

    "Why didn't my detector go off when I spotted a police vehicle?"

    Radar detectors operate scanning for the presence of airborn radar waves within specific permitted frequency ranges used for speed enforcement. The presence of a police vehicle doesn't always mean there will be radar in use, not all police vehicles are equipped with radar units and the ones that are equipped with radar equipment don't always have it operation. The officer might simply be driving to the office, doing paperwork, waiting for a call, etc and may not be doing speed enforcement with a radar system. Police additionally use alternate methods besides radar for speed enforcement. Things like visual estimation, Lidar (laser), pacing, vascar are all other means by which an officer that is doing speed enforcement could acquire your speed without setting off your radar detector. alternately they might waiting until they have observed a vehicle speeding and then turn on the radar unit suddenly to get the target vehicles exact speed (known as instant on or I/O), if you didnt appear to be going fast enough the officer might not activate the radar and wait for a faster vehicle to turn it on. A special note about Lidar (laser): most radar detectors advertise Laser Detection, it is important to understand that laser speed enforcement is very difficult to detect and getting any advanced warning is unlikely in most situations. Laser is a very narrow beam that is directly targeted at individual vehicles and therefor very difficult to pick up until it is aimed right at you. The beam may only be a 1-2 feet wide as it hits the front of your vehicle if the detector isn't within that beam it may miss the laser hit completely, additional countermeasure are needed to effectively handle laser threats.

    " Why am I getting really short detection's?"

    To answer this question a little must be understood about how radar waves behave and travel. radar waves are emitted from an antenna, much like sound waves are emitted from a loudspeaker. the radar waves travel outward in a fairly broad conical shape that gets wider as it's distance from the source increases. Much like sound waves, radar waves can reflect off objects and be absorbed by objects, and be blocked by objection. The objects between you and the radar source can have a very large impact on the distance the radar waves travel (and how far away your radar detector can pick them up). Terrain elements like elevation, curves, vegetation, buildings, as well as vehicles all impact the radar waves path of travel. Things like hills, curves, and vegetation all tend to reduce the range your radar detector can get, by blocking the waves direct path from the radar source to the radar detector or absorbing the radar waves energy. things like other vehicles and buildings can have multiple effects depending on where the radar sources in in relation to the receiver, in some cases a vehicle or building could be between your detector and the radar signal and partially block it, shortening your range, in other cases the radar wave could reflect off a vehicle or building and actually increase you range. Of course as you are driving (and the officer running radar may also be moving in some cases) the objects in the path, both absorbing, blocking and reflecting can be changing very quickly leading to intermittent acquisition and loss of signal, or very short fast ramp ups. As mentioned before Radar waves are traveling outward from the source in a conical pattern, if the radar antenna is directed away from your vehicle (I.E, the officer is targeting traffic coming from the opposite direction from you) the signal your radar detector is picking up is going to be reflections from objects ahead of you, this will result in shorter detection's as you aren't getting direct signal, but rather a weaker reflected signal. In this case however the officer isn't going to be able to measure your speed until you are in front of his radar antenna so the short alert doesn't put you at as much risk. Officers could also be positioned in such a way that their radar antenna is perpendicular to your direction of travel, this often results in very short alerts as the radar waves are traveling perpendicular to your direction of travel and are not as likely to reflect back towards your radar detector, again since you are not in line with the radar antenna the officer cannot acquire your speed via radar in this manor.

    Other factors such as which radar frequency and the power output of the radar gun can also impact detection range.

    Guns operating at higher frequencies tend to be harder to detect as the high frequency waves don't propagate as well over distance, and are more readily absorbed by terrain elements. Think about high and low frequency sound as an example, you hear the low booming of distant thunder first as the low frequency waves travel further and are not easily absorbed or blocked by the terrain, the same applies to radar.

    Another consideration is the power output of the radar gun. If the radar antenna is a lower power output design, then the waves have less amplitude and therefore fade out to nothing in a shorter distance, you wont get as much range on the detection, but they also wont be able to measure your speed from as far a distance.

    Another possibility is known as instant on or I/O, meaning the officer has the radar unit turned off and not transmitting any radar waves (nothing for your detector to pick up) when the officer spots a vehicle that appears to be speeding the radar unit is suddenly turned on and transmitting. once the unit is switched on your radar detector will go full strength alert very quickly, and while it may appear to be a very short detection, in reality there was nothing to detect until the officer turn the radar transmitter on.

    One final consideration is the sensitivity of the receiver, your radar detector. the more sensitive the detector is the more range you are likely to get, since there are so many things that can reduce range, more sensitivity and a high quality detector can help you get the maximum range possible, there are times/conditions where even really sensitive detectors cannot always overcome the challenges of terrain, direction of radar antenna relative to your direction of travel, objects in the path and frequency and power output of the radar antenna. There are many factors that all come into play with each detection and are constantly changing as your vehicle is in motion that have impacts to the range, and ramp-up of the alerts. a good sensitive detector gives you your best chance at a long range alert, and even for the times where the terrain limits the range significantly, the really good sensitivity still probably gave you some additional reaction time over a less sensitive detector that might have alerted too late to save you. Pay close attention to whats around you when you get a short alert, and a longer alert generally you can observe items that contributed to the long or short range alert you received.




    Ok I'm off to bed :)
    .
     
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  8. OBeerWANKenobi

    OBeerWANKenobi This is not the car you're looking for..... Advanced User

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    Might I suggest giving a short succinct response with a spoiler tag below it for the rest?

    Edits below:

     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
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  9. benzr

    benzr Been there done that !! Original V1 user !! Advanced User

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    Put yourself to sleep ... huh ??


    Posted from my iPhone using the RDF Mobile App!
     
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  10. thebravo

    thebravo Security Detachment Security Attaché Advanced User Premium Member

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    Yes feel free to format however is best, probably worth making an article on this rather than just a post or making it a new topic that is a sticky and locked. I was simply putting out some verbiage that could be modified and used in such a sticky.
     
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  11. CJR238

    CJR238 -CMS Article Admin- Administrator Advanced User Premium Member

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    Its perfect. Most likely we will use a simple and complex answering in the Will become an Article at some point but focusing on the Sticky for now. Q & A. Like:

    Q. "Why didn't my detector go off when I spotted a police vehicle?"

    A. Its more than likely the LEO did not have his radar on. They often sit to show there presents and slow people down.

    Additionally an in more detail:


    Radar detectors operate scanning for the presence of airborn radar waves within specific permitted frequency ranges used for speed enforcement. The presence of a police vehicle doesn't always mean there will be radar in use, not all police vehicles are equipped with radar units and the ones that are equipped with radar equipment don't always have it operation. The officer might simply be driving to the office, doing paperwork, waiting for a call, etc and may not be doing speed enforcement with a radar system. Police additionally use alternate methods besides radar for speed enforcement. Things like visual estimation, Lidar (laser), pacing, vascar are all other means by which an officer that is doing speed enforcement could acquire your speed without setting off your radar detector. alternately they might waiting until they have observed a vehicle speeding and then turn on the radar unit suddenly to get the target vehicles exact speed (known as instant on or I/O), if you didnt appear to be going fast enough the officer might not activate the radar and wait for a faster vehicle to turn it on. A special note about Lidar (laser): most radar detectors advertise Laser Detection, it is important to understand that laser speed enforcement is very difficult to detect and getting any advanced warning is unlikely in most situations. Laser is a very narrow beam that is directly targeted at individual vehicles and therefor very difficult to pick up until it is aimed right at you. The beam may only be a 1-2 feet wide as it hits the front of your vehicle if the detector isn't within that beam it may miss the laser hit completely, additional countermeasure are needed to effectively handle laser threats.
     
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  12. OBeerWANKenobi

    OBeerWANKenobi This is not the car you're looking for..... Advanced User

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    OK.....I've taken a little bit of editorial liberty and went through theBravo's excellent write up. I've also added what I think should probably be the next question and a "short answer" to it. Maybe others could help elaborate on "Why does my detector alert when there are no police around?"

    I've contacted xydrine as well about getting rid of the "SPOILER:" portion of the tags when a title is chosen.

    ETA: I've put the Vortex vids recommended by thebravo in the additional info sections as well. Why not? We've got room!

    Update: Added "help" template.
    10/01/18: Added credits, added additional info to "no police around" question and answer.


    Here's what I've got so far:


    Q: Why didn't my detector go off when I spotted a police vehicle?

    A: It’s very likely that the officer was not using radar.
    Radar detectors operate by scanning for the presence of radar waves within the specific permitted frequency ranges used for speed enforcement. The presence of a police vehicle is not a guarantee that there will be any radar to detect. This could be for any number of reasons:

    Not all police vehicles are equipped with radar units.

    The radar equipment could simply be turned off as the officer may only be driving to the office, doing paperwork or waiting for a call and may not be doing speed enforcement with a radar system. Many officers will park their vehicles out in the open while doing these things simply for the deterrent effect.

    Police use alternate methods besides radar for speed enforcement like visual estimation, LIDAR (laser), pacing and VASCAR which can all acquire your speed without setting off your radar detector. If LIDAR is being used, though most radar detectors advertise Laser detection, it is important to understand that laser speed enforcement is very difficult to detect and getting any advanced warning is unlikely in most situations. Laser is a very narrow beam that is directly targeted at an individual vehicle and therefore very difficult to pick up until it is aimed directly at your detector. For this reason, radar detectors are not recommended as your sole method for LIDAR protection.

    The LEO might be waiting until they have visually observed that a vehicle is likely to be speeding and then turn on the radar unit suddenly to get the target vehicles exact speed (known as “instant on” or “I/O”). If you didn’t appear to be going fast enough the officer might not activate the radar unit at all and instead wait for a juicier target.


    Credis: @thebravo @Vortex

    Q: Why am I getting what seem to be very short detections? Is something wrong with my detector?

    A: Although it could be a problem with your detector, it’s more likely that the terrain, vegetation or angle of the signal is the culprit. The officer may also be using methods designed to foil detectors.
    To answer this question more in-depth, a little must be understood about how radar waves behave and travel. Radar waves are emitted from an antenna and much like sound waves are emitted from a loudspeaker, the radar waves travel outward in a fairly broad conical shape that gets wider as its distance from the source increases. Radar waves can reflect off objects, be absorbed by objects and be blocked by objects. The objects between you and the radar source can have a very large impact on the distance the radar waves travel and consequently, how far away your radar detector can pick them up.

    Terrain elements like elevation, curves, vegetation and buildings, as well as other vehicles, all impact the radar waves as they travel. Hills, curves, and vegetation all tend to reduce the range of your radar detections by blocking the wave’s direct path from the radar source to the radar detector or absorbing the radar wave’s energy. Other vehicles and buildings can have multiple effects depending on where the radar source is in relation to the receiver. In some cases a vehicle or building could be between your detector and the radar signal and partially block it, shortening your range, in other cases the radar wave could reflect off a vehicle or building and actually increase your range. As you move along, objects in between the source – which may be moving as well – and your detector are constantly changing, absorbing, blocking and reflecting the radar waves which can lead to intermittent acquisition and loss of signal, or very short fast ramp ups.

    Another probable reason for a short detection is the direction of from which the radar antenna is directed towards your vehicle. In a situation where the officer is targeting traffic coming from the opposite direction of your travel, the signal that your radar detector will pick up is going to actually be the reflected signal off of objects ahead of you. This will result in shorter detection's as you aren't getting direct signal, but rather a weaker reflected signal. Fortunately, in a case like this the officer isn't going to be able to measure your speed until you are in front of his radar antenna so the short alert doesn't put you at as much risk. Officers could also be positioned in such a way that their radar antenna is perpendicular to your direction of travel, this often results in very short alerts as the radar waves are traveling perpendicular to your direction of travel and are not as likely to reflect back towards your radar detector. Again, since you are not in line with the radar antenna the officer cannot acquire your speed via radar in this manner.

    Other factors such as the radar frequency being used and the power output of the radar gun can also impact detection range. Radar guns operating at higher frequencies tend to be harder to detect as the high frequency waves don't propagate as well over distance, and are more readily absorbed by terrain elements. Think about high and low frequency sound as an example, you hear the low booming of distant thunder first as the low frequency waves travel further and are not easily absorbed or blocked by the terrain. This same phenomenon applies to radar. Radar guns with a lower power output design emit waves have less amplitude and therefore fade out to nothing in a shorter distance. You won’t get as much range on their detection, but fortunately the range at which the radar gun can aquire your speed will also be shorter.

    Another possibility that may cause a short alert distance would be the use of “instant on” or “I/O” by the operator of the radar unit. This is a method used with which a radar unit is turned off or not transmitting any radar waves until the officer spots a vehicle that appears to be speeding at which point the radar unit is suddenly turned on and allowed to transmit. As no radar waves are being emitted until that critical moment, your radar detector will go from silent to a full-strength alert very quickly. While it may initially appear to be a very short detection, in reality there was nothing to detect until the officer turn the radar transmitter on.



    One final consideration is the sensitivity of the receiver, your radar detector. The more sensitive the detector is the more range you are likely to get. Since there are so many things that can reduce range, more sensitivity and a high quality detector can help you get the maximum range possible. There are times and conditions where even the most sensitive detectors cannot overcome the challenges of terrain, direction of radar antenna relative to your direction of travel, objects in the path and frequency and power output of the radar antenna. With each detection there are many factors that are constantly changing while your vehicle is in motion that have impacts to the range, and ramp-up of the alerts. A good sensitive detector gives you your best chance at a long range alert but even for the times where the terrain limits the range significantly, this sensitivity can still give you some additional reaction time over a less sensitive detector that might have alerted too late to save you.

    Consider all the factors above to judge whether your alert distance on a particular detection was reasonable. It helps to have a dash cam to review the factors after the fact.

    Credis: @thebravo @Vortex

    Q: Why does my detector alert when there are no police around?

    A: Given that you are sure you didn’t miss seeing a hidden police officer, a false alert can be caused by quite a variety of things. It could be another vehicle near you with on-board monitoring systems or stationary sources like door openers at the corner drug store.



    Added additional info portion 10/01/18. Please check if it needs changes.
    Since Radar detectors operate by scanning for the presence of radar waves within certain frequency ranges, they will detect anything with a strong enough signal that’s within those ranges. This isn’t limited to police radar. A lot of blind spot monitoring systems or BSMs on modern vehicles operate in the same frequency range as police radar. These are usually K band alerts. Traffic sensors along the highway that monitor the flow of traffic can also set off your detector, usually on K band as well. Automatic door openers such as those found at your local stores frequently cause detectors to alert on K band or X band. Your detector may pick up the harmonic frequencies from other radar detectors or even from satellite dishes! The last two alerts mentioned are usually on Ka band which is normally dedicated to police radar, making them all the more fun. We call these false alerts, or just “falses”.

    Falses can drive you nuts, desensitize you to alerts, or even worse, stop you from using your detector all together. With those issues in mind, and although your detector may see every signal that’s strong enough within the range it’s programmed for, modern detectors try to filter out these falses so they don’t become an issue. Unfortunately, when these signals act a lot like police radar, it can get a little complicated to do so and some detectors are better at it than others.

    So filtering these falses is good but excessive filtering can cause problems too, such as not alerting to real police radar or being slow to alert while the detector decides if the alert is legitimate. The radar detector manufacturers have to find a happy medium with their filtering and it’s not easy.

    Because of the problems inherent with false alerts, quality filtering should be a major consideration in deciding when to replace an older detector or which new detector to purchase. A sensitive detector is very important as well, but the more sensitive a detector, the harder the filtering has to work. The detectors that can combine both, good sensitivity and good filtering are in high demand.

    If your detector is also capable of detecting laser, it can sometimes false alert to that as well. It could false to the taillights on certain models of cars, near airports or military bases, from your cellular phone or from other vehicle’s adaptive cruise controls among other things. Laser falses are generally pretty rare compared to radar falses but they certainly can happen too.

    Credits: @OBeerWANKenobi @Vortex

    Q: Wait! I’m still pretty sure something is wrong with my detector!

    A: If none of the above helped you to answer your question, please start a forum thread and copy/paste in the template below along with your edits. This will assist forum members in helping you.
    Detector Make and Model

    Overwrite this text with make and model of your detector.

    Purchase date

    Overwrite this text with your purchase date which is useful in determining warranty status.

    Purchased from

    Overwrite this text with the vendor you purchased from. This is useful to determine who to contact and what their return policy may be.

    Do you have something to test with?

    Overwrite this text with your answer and a brief description of what you are using to test your detector.

    If your problem can’t be solved here, would you be willing to ship your detector to a forum member for testing?

    Overwrite this text with your answer.

    Describe the problem.

    Overwrite this text with your description.

    Current Settings

    Overwrite this text with the description of any settings that may influence results such as filters, segmentation or narrow vs. wide.

    What have you done to try to correct the problem?

    Overwrite this text with your description.

    How can the problem be reproduced?

    Overwrite this text with your description.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
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  13. CJR238

    CJR238 -CMS Article Admin- Administrator Advanced User Premium Member

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    Nice! Exactly what we are looking for!

    Hopefully we can get more questions and answers.
     
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  14. LexusISF

    LexusISF Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Looks great. Depending on the topic, add a line to provide a picture if applicable.
     
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  15. OBeerWANKenobi

    OBeerWANKenobi This is not the car you're looking for..... Advanced User

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    I changed the answer a bit and added my own write-up to the additional information section of:
    Q: Why does my detector alert when there are no police around?
    Please check it over and let me know what I should correct.

    I also added credits to the answers. It's important to give credit where credit is due and hopefully my edits didn't make anyone feel that they don't WANT to be credited for their information. LOL
     
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  16. CJR238

    CJR238 -CMS Article Admin- Administrator Advanced User Premium Member

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    Any more?

    Like FW issues/updates bug quick fixes?

    Laser detection Q & A?
     
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