Accident, who will be assigned fault?

Discussion in 'Stories from the Front Lines' started by Tallyho, Jun 29, 2018.

  1. fishing66

    fishing66 PSL +15 Advanced User

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    @Tallyho, it looks like this is turning into a case of insurance fraud on her part. Will wonders never cease, I used to be a fraud investigator. The minor impact and cosmetic damage to both vehicles absolutely precludes that anyone was injured. Her air bag did not deploy. You can bet your last dollar that you will be receiving a letter from a law firm claiming that the other driver was "seriously" injured. You insurance company will be very interested in the dash cam video in disputing a bodily injury claim against you. One, it shows that she did have some opportunity to slow and/or swerve and did not which places a degree of negligence on her. Two, it shows a minor bump, not a frame-bending crash. It is regrettable that Illinois has no tort threshold and people can make liability claims even for minor soft tissue car accident cases. In NJ, we have a tort threshold wherein you have to sustain a truly serious injury such as a broken bone etc. before you can press a liability claim. She is going to try and run up medical bills like you wouldn't believe. You have some defenses in that she passed the box truck on the right.....chances are, the truck was at PSL as speeding with a CDL is a no-no. The video clearly shows her passing the box truck on the right at a high rate of speed which also helps negate her injury claim.... while you do not acknowledge or accept that she sustained injury, if she did, the injury would have been reduced or eliminated altogether had she been obeying the speed limit. Insurance companies do not like to litigate cases and your carrier may fold like a cheap suit just to get rid of her. Gird yourself for a premium increase if they do that.
     
  2. Tallyho

    Tallyho Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    What's the end game for running up medical bills? Doesn't seem like a net gain for the claimant so what am I missing?
     
  3. sdrawkcab

    sdrawkcab sdrawkcaB|Backwards Advanced User Premium Member

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    When the police came, it’s typical they will ask her if she is injured and if she would like medical attention. IANAL, but It will possibly help your case if she “denied medical attention” - refusing to go with an ambulance to a hospital, or refusing to be looked at by paramedics. Maybe @fireparamed has thoughts from his experience with his profession.


    Written from my mobile device.
     
  4. fishing66

    fishing66 PSL +15 Advanced User

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    Over the years, I handled literally hundreds of cases where the claimant denied injury at the scene and then turned around and claimed that they had been injured. Usually they would say that they were shook up from the accident and the pain set in the day after the accident. I had one case with UPS as the client where there was no property damage to either the UPS truck or the claimants car. A week later, they filed a report of incident with The police were they specifically stated, “we were both injured”. They went to an attorney before they went to a doctor. The attorney sent them to a chiropractor who was in the same building as the attorney. We got the New Jersey Department of insurance fraud involved and those two people wound up paying $5000 each in civil settlement to the state of New Jersey.


    Posted from my iPhone using the RDF Mobile App!
     
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  5. sdrawkcab

    sdrawkcab sdrawkcaB|Backwards Advanced User Premium Member

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    Good! Too bad the fine was only that small for the lawyer. That lawyer will make it back again in 1 hour.
     
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  6. hiddencam

    hiddencam Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Hope Tallyho helps bring the fraudsters down!

    Screenshot 2018-07-12 at 12.57.53 PM.png
    Screenshot 2018-07-12 at 1.01.03 PM.png

    (I'm re-watching Breaking Bad at the moment and the discussion brought those images straight to mind!)
     
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  7. fireparamed

    fireparamed Learning to Fly Beginner User

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    Most Fire/EMS Departments will get a signed release on a call like this that states that the person involved and the paramedic currently agree that no emergency care or transport is needed.....but it goes on to say that if they decide that they’ve need future care to recontact EMS or see their own physician or the ER.

    I personally like to document really well on these types of calls...I will quote people when they initially say they aren’t hurt as well as document that the accident was mostly cosmetic damage....it’s generally very easy to see when someone is likely to try and make something out if nothing on scene....I try my best to even the odds by documenting any supporting evidence against the folks that are tying to take advantage of people. It’s very frustrating to say the least.
     
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  8. fishing66

    fishing66 PSL +15 Advanced User

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    The reason for this is that the higher the medical bills, the higher the settlement. The usual way to ballpark a car accident settlement value is to multiply "specials" x 3. Specials are medical bills, lost wages etc. For a soft tissue injury like she is going to claim, it would not surprise me to see her go to a chiropractor for five Quintilian "adjustments". $5000.00 in chiropractor bills x 3=$15,000, knock of 1/3 for her comparative negligence and the insurance company would probably settle for around $10,000.00. there are situations where the "3 x" rule does not apply.....Once again with UPS as a client, their driver broadsided a woman and it one of the injuries was an injured larynx. OK, if I start talking hoarsely, no one will notice or care. She was a renowned opera singer and UPS had to write a much bigger check to pay their peace with her.
     
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  9. Tallyho

    Tallyho Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    So two notes:

    The other driver so far has refused to cooperate with my insurance carrier and hasn't provided a statement. That's a bit curious.

    The bumper I had shipped via Greyhound bus from the Atlanta area is still in route two weeks later and only God knows where. They generated a shipping label for me but apparently that's not what they use to track shipments. You have to request a manual "bus bill" at the drop off location, which is completely separate from the shipping label. Must be taking the scenic route cause I find it hard to believe they could lose a 6 foot long bumper without a trace.
     
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  10. fishing66

    fishing66 PSL +15 Advanced User

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    The fact that she hasn't responded to your insurer may be a sign that she has retained an attorney and the attorney has told her not to talk to your insurer. The very fact that she claimed injury from this exceedingly minor impact tells us that you have a gold digger on your hands. When I was a fraud investigator, this is the exact situation where I'd be shooting video of her to dispute her alleged "injury". A bit off topic, however, one of the best ones I ever got was a guy who claimed that he had a heart attack because he was dragging a heavy oil fill hose from his oil truck to the customer's oil tank. He retained a lawyer and claimed that he was permanently and totally disabled. I got crystal-clear photos of him carrying two car batteries next to a small pickup truck that had a placard, "ABC Auto Parts". The photos were presented to the workers compensation judge who referred it to the New Jersey Department of Insurance Fraud Division. Into the clink he went. It turned out that yes, he did have a heart attack but it was minor, he tried to blame it on his job with the heating oil company and then double dip by collecting workers compensation and working off the books for the auto parts place. His grand scheme didn't work out so well......
     
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  11. PointerCone

    PointerCone M3 Kng Advanced User Premium Member

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    You got rear ended or hit on qtr panel. The following car (behind you)
    Its sitting in a bus station somewhere with luggage sitting all over the top of it.

    As to the claims process, the more stink you raise with YOUR carrier and hers, the better off you'll be.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
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  12. Tallyho

    Tallyho Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    I got hit on the rear bumper from a 90° angle.

    Now I'm girding my loins.

    My carrier has stated based on their initial review I have no liability and that without a statement from her they will decide against her claim as it currently stands, fwiw.
     
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  13. sdrawkcab

    sdrawkcab sdrawkcaB|Backwards Advanced User Premium Member

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    That’s at least one win with your insurance. Without a citation yourself from a police officer — consider that another win. And now to hope she doesn’t file a civil claim. Fingers crossed for you.


    Written from my mobile device.
     
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  14. Deadhead1971

    Deadhead1971 “Big Bug Bite” Advanced User

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    D0484FBE-66F9-4ECF-942F-BA75037AE470.jpeg 7F5AEE59-C13F-4C58-B619-3E708A8A8A98.jpeg
    I was t-boned and clobbered and my truck was totaled. Here is the police report. This was over a year ago. I was going straight and had my left turn blinker on and a car pulled out from a stop sign and hit me.

    This took a year to fight with insurance. This seemed like a clear cut case. Police cited the other driver for failure to yield the right of way. I asked the officer, “he was at fault, right?” The officer’s next few words would ring true for a year- the officer said “we don’t determine fault, that’s up to the insurance companies.”

    My insurance determined I was not at fault. BUT, the other guy’s said I was partially liable and went to arbitration and lost. I did win but it took a year.
     
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  15. Choose Life

    Choose Life 35.5 hater R3 Day One User Advanced User Premium Member

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    "You had your blinker on, it's your fault"
    What are you 106? You crossed 3 lanes of traffic to smash into me
    One lane sure things happen
    3 lanes? Lol
     
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  16. Deadhead1971

    Deadhead1971 “Big Bug Bite” Advanced User

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    It seemed like a clear-cut case when it happened, and I won in the end, but the other insurance fought to keep from paying a settlement and I was stuck in the middle between my insurance and the other guy’s insurance. Took a year. My insurance had to step in and basically give me some money so I could replace my totaled vehicle. I had to pay deductible. It all worked out in the end.

    I did not lawyer up so maybe that’s what I should do if it happens again. This was not a fender bender.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  17. romclean

    romclean MiNdLe$$ $ouL Advanced User

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    Aren’t you suppose to turn into the first lane not the second??? I guess it depends on the state.
     

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