Valentine 1 with V1Driver as a Motorcycle System

Discussion in 'Official V1Driver Discussion Section' started by cug, Mar 20, 2018.

  1. cug

    cug Learning to Drive General User

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    Hi All,

    I'm investigating what system I can use for installing on my motorcycle and wondering whether the following can work:
    • Valentine 1 installed with the iPhone bluetooth thingy
    • V1Driver running on my iPhone (sitting in my tankbag)
    • iPhone connected to my motorcycle for music playback as well as phone/navigation usage
    • Sena 20S bluetooth communication system connected to the bike's system
    Now, can I use the V1Driver running on the phone to give me the audio alerts to the headset? Basically, I'm trying to minimize the pieces of hardware I have to install, wire and take off when leaving the motorcycle.

    With the above setup, I could take off the phone, take off the V1, take the tankbag and I'm good to go.

    Another question: can the app "wake" the screen of the phone like some of the navigation apps do? Basically, I start the app, but press the power button on the phone => phone screen goes dark but app is running, when an alert comes in, can the phone light up and show me the app screen?

    Thanks for any hints or pointers to other discussion where I might find this!
     
  2. mswlogo

    mswlogo Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Absolutely. The iPhone will connect itself.

    You can receive Voice and V1 bleeps. It can automate itself so you never have to touch the phone.

    Apps cannot bring themselves to foreground or turn on screen and unlock the phone.

    But it can send Notifications which will momentary light up the screen with the information about the alert. But I wouldn’t say that’s the most helpful on a motor cycle.

    @WJS has some experience setting this up.
     
  3. cug

    cug Learning to Drive General User

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    I see, thanks. Yeah, I wasn't sure about "waking" the phone. It might be internal API for Apple Maps (which does it) and it may be allowed for Google Maps as well, although I haven't tested that in a long time.

    One more question though: when the phone is packed away and the app is not in the foreground, will the app still get audio out to the bluetooth headset or do I have to have the app running in the foreground?

    And if I understand the Bluetooth module correctly, I can have the direct wire connection and the bluetooth dongle under the seat somewhere (maybe wrapped to protect it from any water), run a power connection to the front of the bike and to the actual unit. That would make for a fairly clean install and all I'd have to pull off when leaving the bike would be the tankbag and the V1.
     
  4. mswlogo

    mswlogo Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Yes. you can do all that and yes Bluetooth will work. App does not need to be in foreground. In fact when it starts itself up you won't even see it in the list of running apps.
    It has an "Audio Path Test" every time it connects to V1 (it will Say "V1 Driver") so you know your audio path is working.

    But you need to be sure the phone still gets decent GPS signal (doesn't need to be perfect).
    And the phone needs to be able to reach the Bluetooth LE dongle.

    The app displays both GPS accuracy and Bluetooth strength and you can set alarms if either doesn't meet the threshold that you can adjust.
    You should be able to make what you said work but just keep in mind you might have to play with it a little (maybe).

    Also the way iOS works you might need to start the app manually and let it connect and then put it to background for a few days.
    iOS "learns" that, that is ok and what you want and after a short time will just do it for you from there on out. Even if the app is not running at all it will start the app up when it see the LE Dongle.

    It's kind of how iOS learns what time you leave work and pops up an ETA to get home.

    Yes, Apple cheats with their own Apps doing cool stuff.
     
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  5. cug

    cug Learning to Drive General User

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    Yeah, I know that Apple cheats from first hand experience ... ;-)

    Sounds great, I think I have my system planned out then and the good part is I don't even have to put the phone on the handlebar. Or I could use one of the old phones I have (I think I have some 6 or 6S flying around in a drawer at work) and mount that on the handlebar to use the cool display features the app has but I don't really want to do that with my privately owned iPhone X, even though I sometimes do. Plus then I could use Waze as well.

    So, I think I need:
    • V1
    • V1 Connection LE
    • V1Driver App
    and then get busy wiring everything up. That is a much better proposition than using a headphone to bluetooth system like the Sena SM10 which would add more connections, more wiring, more mounting etc. It's not "simple", but simpler and more affordable than other solutions I can think of. Plus while I love stuff that works right out of the box, I also love tinkering with things and optimizing and so on, so the V1 was on my radar (pun intended) anyways.

    Thanks for your great work and support here btw and I hope the app sells enough to compensate you for the invested time!
    [doublepost=1521608599,1521606982][/doublepost]And the more I think about this it's possible I've found the first useful application for the Apple Watch 1 I have here. Maybe I'll put a mount for this somewhere in the cockpit, basically as an on demand V1Driver display ... I guess this will be fun when I start mounting and playing around with things. But I'll probably wait until after my vacation.

    When I get something mounted and working, I'll make sure to post here what I did and how it turned out.
     
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  6. mswlogo

    mswlogo Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    V1Driver does work with the Apple Watch but I think you have to be wearing an Apple Watch for it to do anything. It senses it’s on your wrist. Also to “wake” the watch display you need to raise your wrist into view.
     
  7. cug

    cug Learning to Drive General User

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    Yeah, thought about that. Might not work. Ah, well. It would be one more device and that's just what I wanted to get away from, so probably good that it doesn't work ...
     
  8. WJS

    WJS A low profile can be the best defense Intermediate User Premium Member

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    @cug, yes I had the exact setup you're planning and it worked great. The only reasons I switched from the V1 to NetRadar were:
    1. I did not have the V1 in a bag or otherwise a weatherproof compartment so if I got caught in the rain I would have to stop and quickly stow the V1. Not very practical in all situations.
    2. The location I had the V1 mounted was good for forward radar but the mass of the bike and my body blocked the rear antenna. Keep that in mind; it's critical to have an obstructive view forward and the detector be relatively level (tough on a bike).
    3. The takedown/setup each time I parked was annoying.

    The NR unit with Bluetooth and the ALPConnect app solved these problems for me but I do not enjoy the 'known false alarm' blocking of V1Driver when on my bike. The other benefit of NR is the simple addition of ALP heads to the front of the bike. I've not tested the effectiveness of the single head I have but it can't hurt and will at least warn me of a laser hit.

    So as long as you're okay with the three issue I had with the V1 setup you will not be disappointed using it with the V1Driver app. Oh, and when using the V1D, you have a playback option which can be synced to video you capture from a helmet or bike cam. I do miss that!
     
  9. danham

    danham Learning to Drive General User

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    V1Driver is perfect for motorcycling. On my BMW F800 ST I have the dongle wired to the "GPS" circuit so it goes on/off with the key and my iPhone paired to my Sena 20S. Using the LE dongle and V1D eliminated a huge mess of wires and the need for the Valentine Remote Audio Adapter (which is a piece of cr*p) and Sena SR-10.

    So with minimal wiring and fuss I now have phone, music, radar, intercom and GPS directions in my helmet.

    The sophisticated muting choices in V1D have transformed my riding. No more stabbing for the V1 mute button with my left hand while trying to brake, downshift, steer and avoid some TXTing cager. ;-)

    -dan
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
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  10. shorton

    shorton Learning to Drive General User

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    Also interested in this. On my Ducati Sport/Touring bike I have a V1, that is actually mounted on my tank bag. My tank bag has 12V power inside so I have the V1 and phone connections inside the bag. Nice and easy to unplug the bag and everything comes with me when needed.

    The V1 isn't in my line of site nor can you see it in direct sunlight anyway. So I need to be able to get an alert from it. To add to that, I wear earplugs and at any speed I can't hear the V1 even though it's almost right under my chin. So I need to get it's audio out to me somehow.

    My concern was on the processing delays to go from V1->Phone->Blutooth->Sena Audio. How much delay exists?

    My helmet used an integrated Sena based on the model 10 (10U), so I'm not sure how it behaves with iPhone Bluetooth audio and intercom on at the same time but that's an issue to check on with Sena. Considering upgrading to new helmet (Neotec II) with 20 series Sena anyway which I think addresses that.

    My other alternatives are less sophisticated: Use the V1 remote audio adapter, add a "radar screamer" which is basically an external speaker of some sort a guy sells. Or a Bluetooth adapter to transfer V1 remove audio out to my Sena. Even considered a sort of heads up display mounting some LED's right at the top of my windshield just under my line of sight, but that's not a good solution, easy to miss.
     
  11. mswlogo

    mswlogo Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Stream some music from your phone to helmet. Now pause it. Now hit play. The lag from tapping play to hearing it will be the bulk of the delay.

    You can have Voice or V1 tones or both in V1Driver.

    Voice adds more lag.
     
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  12. danham

    danham Learning to Drive General User

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    There is no way to adapt a standard Bluetooth adapter to the V1 without using the Remote Audio Adapter. I'd strongly recommend NOT using the Remote Audio Adapter, with or without Bluetooth plugged into it. On my BMW F800 ST I found the adapter very susceptible to vibration and corrosion, even though I sheltered it from rain, and the mini-jack connection would only be reliable for a matter of weeks before it produced static interference and intermittent dropouts due to spring fatigue on its cheapo contacts and the above-mentioned corrosion.

    I tried all kinds of Mickey Mouse setups, including hardwired earbuds, and they all had serious drawbacks, including nasty lag when using a Sena SR-10 and the Remote Audio Adapter. The way to go is definitely the new Valentine LE BT dongle and V1Driver. There is almost no lag at all (I use tones only) and it integrates nicely with intercom and GPS directions. I got rid of tons of unsightly and unreliable wiring and it all works really well now with my iPhone 8 and Sena 20S.

    -dan
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018 at 6:14 PM
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  13. shorton

    shorton Learning to Drive General User

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    It sounds promising. With added advantages of the app.

    @mswlogo Tried that, I get very little delay. I don't think that will make or break me for a V1 alert. Thank you.

    @danham, Thanks, too. FWIW there is a way to pull audio out of the V1 without their box. Simple capacitor added to the right pins. But that's out of scope for this forum. And less is better, I agree.

    What about using a GPS app (e.g. Waze, Google Maps, MyRoute-App, etc.) with V1Driver on an iPhone running at the same time? Can/Do you get alerts from both?

    The only problem I see with this, for my use case, is my SENA (10 series) headset's device priority. I assume the sounds coming from V1Driver are treated like music and will go out the phones A2DP Bluetooth channel. That gets the lowest priority on a SENA so anything else overrides it (Phone/voice, Intercom, FM radio). For me the problem is "Intercom" overrides it. When I'm leading rides or riding with a friend I'm on the intercom a lot and could easily override a V1 alert, assuming it's A2DP from the app?

    One workaround is SENA's SR10 connects to the headset via HFP protocol only so anything fed to that gets the highest priority. I suppose one could kludge an audio cable from the phone to an SR10 to get the needed priority. But then it's V1->V1Dongle->BT->SR10->BT->Headset, adding another device and BT hop n there. Probably add some more latency that way. But this isn't saving me much over a direct audio link (using the cable mentioned above) to a SR10.

    My SENA (10U) is integrated in my helmet so swapping it isn't simple. I think the 20-series allow some audio sharing that may overcome the problem. I'm considering a new Neotec II helmet with a newly released integrated 20-series SENA ($$$$).
     
  14. mswlogo

    mswlogo Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    @shorton V1Driver has extensive options on Audio. It is categorize as a spoken navigation type app.

    You can choose that it pauses other spoken audio or not. You can choose to have it duck other audio or not.

    You can have multiple audio apps with V1Driver.

    What has foreground gets priority if there is a conflict and it’s setup to pause spoken on each other. Other good audio apps have similar options.

    I find ducking smoother / friendlier.

    I frequently run Nav with V1Driver.

    V1Driver doesn’t have complete control on audio (no app does). It sets up recommendations and rules and iOS ultimately decides. iOS tries to do what it thinks the user desires. And generally does a good job.
     
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  15. danham

    danham Learning to Drive General User

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    @mswlogo I think he's referring to the Sena priority, which may "think" audio from V1Driver is music coming from the phone and therefore is lower priority than intercom.

    @shorton In my previous setup, the SR-10 introduced a LOT of lag because it has to "wait" to open its noise gate. It was better than no BT connection, but not very good. It was possible to lock it open, but battery life suffered and powering it would have meant yet another cable. It did, however, take care of the priority issue with my old SMH-10.

    -dan
     
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  16. mswlogo

    mswlogo Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    I don't know if these systems can differentiate "Phone Calls" from Music but on iOS you can have send the Alert as a "Phone Call" which is essentially a "Higher Priority" on typical car systems and will suspend what ever is playing and switch to the "Phone" and the resume when the "call or ring" (Alert) is completed.

    So basically you can choose AD2P or HFP BT Channels.
     
  17. danham

    danham Learning to Drive General User

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    Where it gets tricky is when there are more devices in the BT stack than just the LE dongle and Sena headset. With just those two, the priority is going to be as you describe above. With more devices, it can depend on how you pair them to the Sena. For example, a zumo 660 GPS will "hog" both an HFP and A2DP channel and cannot be selectively paired via just one of them. For some Sena models (and most BT headset brands), that means no other A2DP device can be paired. iPhones also require both an A2DP and HFP, again with no selective pairing (I hear that Android phones allow selective). But the Sena 20S allows more than one A2DP.

    On my bike I have my zumo 660 GPS paired to the 20S via its special GPS BT method and my iPhone paired to the 20S using its mobile phone pairing, resulting in two A2DP channels and one HFP in use. When I had an earlier Sena model, it all had to go through the GPS because the headset could not accommodate a second A2DP. I don't want to admit how many hours of head scratching went into this.

    -dan
     
  18. shorton

    shorton Learning to Drive General User

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    VERY interesting. Is this a setting in the V1driver or in the phone? I haven't see that on the phone, but I know some of that stuff is buried.

    @danham, that's interesting, too. If you have your phone paired as HFP (if I understood you right), and you are getting the V1driver alerts that's just what I need. I get your points about powering the SR10, which I had already figured I'd have to do in that scenario. Sounding like I can avoid that which would be great.
     
  19. danham

    danham Learning to Drive General User

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    iPhones will not allow pairing as HFP only; you have to pair as both HFP and A2DP. I gather that some Android phones allow selective pairing, but can't verify that. Regardless, with a 20S you get V1Driver alerts as shared audio with intercom via what Sena calls multitasking in settings.

    -dan
     
  20. shorton

    shorton Learning to Drive General User

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    Bummer, I misunderstood. Yeah, 20's have some advantages. I've got a 10 series (10U, Neotech Integrated) which has some related limitations. It too can do 2-phone (HFP) pairing I think, but you don't get the "sharing" like the 20 series. Bottom line on the 10's for priority it has to be incoming via the HFP protocol.

    Anxious to understand the details from @mswlogo's post above re exactly how this is done/configured: "on iOS you can have send the Alert as a "Phone Call""