Pro M / RCM Ka Filters Tested 33.8

studio1930

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#1
I wanted to test the Ka filters with Ka 33.8 to see how well the Radenso Pro M and RCM did and to see if it reduced the range in an off-axis, real-world scenario. Here are my findings.

Gun: MPH Bee 36 with a Ka 33.8 antenna mounted in the center of the rear window of a Honda Accord.
Course: Curved residential road 2400 feet long. Slight down and uphill. Cruise set at 30 mph.
Detectors Tested: Radenso Pro M (US8 fw), Radenso RCM (Current US fw)
Pro M Settings: Ka narrow, Ka filter Off/On. Auto-City X8, K4, Ka0.
RCM Settings: Ka narrow, Ka filter Off/Normal/High, Auto-City X8, K4, Ka0. Rear antenna off.
Runs: Three runs were performed for each detector with each setting (15 total runs). All results were consistent.

Results: Both the Pro M and the RCM performed nearly identically with an average detection of 1907 feet for both Ka filter off and on (off / normal for RCM). There was no detectable difference with the Ka filter set to off as compared to having it set on in this real-world scenario (police often shoot in this very spot). This provided around 28 seconds of warning before entering the kill zone at the PSL.
Ka Filter High, RCM: When the Ka filter was set to High on the RCM, the detection distance was often the same (1907 feet) but was sometimes 100 to 150' shorter. This is consistent with how the Radenso "High" filters have performed in the past. The distance is not always reduced but is sometimes slightly reduced if the signal is very weak.

This image shows the course and the average results. The yellow line represents the various detection zone of the RCM when the Ka filter was set to High.
prom_rcm_ka338_filter_test_3_18_2018.jpg


Here is a video of one run so that you can see the course and the warning provided.

Here is a bonus video showing the Pro M with a difficult downhill, 90-degree, FF (pointing away from the detector) detection. Ka narrow, Ka filter off.

Disclaimer: One set of tests, two detectors, one radar source, low sample rate, test yourself, draw own conclusions, blah, blah, blah. :)
 
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InsipidMonkey

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#2
Thanks for the test!

Was Ka filter on or off on the Pro M in the bonus video?
 

studio1930

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Thanks for the test!

Was Ka filter on or off on the Pro M in the bonus video?
I updated the original thread. Ka filter was off, but I ran several more of those runs and it produced the same distance with the Ka filter on (sometimes slightly better probably due to reflections).
 

InsipidMonkey

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Got it, thanks! That box truck as you turned the corner probably helped in the video, but still a pretty impressive FF/off-axis detection. Glad to hear Ka filter On doesn't seem to be impacting off-axis detections much now.

Have you done any testing comparing Ka Wide and Ka Narrow? I've been running Wide on my Pro M due to out-of-tune Stalkers in NY, but I haven't had a chance to test whether I'm taking a significant range hit compared to Narrow.
 

studio1930

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I have not tested narrow vs wide for Ka. I run narrow to eliminate my Jeep FCW radar falses which come in around the 34.3 area. I would love fully customizable segments.

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sschwar2

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#6
Thanks for the testing. How do you find BSM filtering on RCM?
 

Heywood

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#7
Nice test studio.
Thanks.


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studio1930

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Thanks for the testing. How do you find BSM filtering on RCM?
Excellent. It is quiet most of the time. There are a few known trouble makers BSMs, but not many. I often forget it is turned on. Running K an Ka narrow probably helps.

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milkman

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#9
Nice Test! Thanks for sharing.
 

InsipidMonkey

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Thanks for the testing. How do you find BSM filtering on RCM?
Excellent. It is quiet most of the time. There are a few known trouble makers BSMs, but not many. I often forget it is turned on. Running K an Ka narrow probably helps.
I still haven't had a single confirmed BSM false yet on my Pro M since US6. Running Highway, K Wide, TS Rej Low.

@studio1930 What BSM falses have you seen? I'll keep a lookout for them.

I do recall reading that someone noticed fewer falses running K Wide than K Narrow on one of the earlier FWs. Have you tried K Wide out of curiosity?

Edit: I see the comment was regarding the RC-M. Have you had any BSM falses on the Pro M?
 

studio1930

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#11
BSM confirmations to date. Green for no false alert; red for false alert. Only vehicles with visible yellow mirror light were tested indicating BSM was installed and active. Detector set to highway mode.

Pro M and RCM:
Ford Explorer Limited
Toyota Camry XLE
Hyundai Sonata Limited
Chevy malibu LTR
Ford Escape Titanium
Toyota Rav 4 XLE
GMC Yukon
Ford Fusion Titanium

Cadillac SRX4
Mazda CX5
Buick Enclave

Lincoln MKC
Lincoln MKX
Subaru Crosstrek

Cadillac XTS4 V (RCM only. Pro M not tested)
GMC Denali Acadia

Old Cadillac Escalade
Lexus ES350
Dodge Durango Citadel
Rav4 Limited Hybrid
Chevy Equinox
M Benz GLE 450
Hyundai Genesis
 
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InsipidMonkey

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#12
Thanks for the list!

I've been driving between a new CR-V and an Acura (both with BSM) with the Pro M and it has been quiet, which blew me away. Both cause my V1 and R3 to false.

I'll go looking for some new Caddys, CX5s, and GMCs and see if I get any falses.
 

synistyr

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I'm getting an occasional BSM/MRCD false. I suspect it's from new Suburus but it's been hard to confirm.

Anyone else?

Running Gen2/US 8
MRCD narrow/MR filter high




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Choose Life

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#14
Thanks for the list!

I've been driving between a new CR-V and an Acura (both with BSM) with the Pro M and it has been quiet, which blew me away. Both cause my V1 and R3 to false.

I'll go looking for some new Caddys, CX5s, and GMCs and see if I get any falses.
Has that been on BSM filter or +Tsr low/High
Have you been able to quantify the delay on low/high?
Is it any appreciable difference with/without bsm filter
 

HotRodEV

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I have not tested narrow vs wide for Ka. I run narrow to eliminate my Jeep FCW radar falses which come in around the 34.3 area.
Is that what that is?

I put my RCM into KA Narrow pretty quickly to knock that frequency out, so didn't have enough time to see the pattern...
 

studio1930

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Is that what that is?

I put my RCM into KA Narrow pretty quickly to knock that frequency out, so didn't have enough time to see the pattern...
Yes, the Ka 34.3 band caused a few false alerts for me, especially from my Jeep. I'm glad Europe runs that band and not the US. I can't wait for car manufacturers to move to 77 GHz.
 

InsipidMonkey

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#17
Has that been on BSM filter or +Tsr low/High
Have you been able to quantify the delay on low/high?
Is it any appreciable difference with/without bsm filter
I've run both TS Rej High and Low, but I usually run Low day-to-day (Note the Pro M has no separate K filter like the RC-M).

I should try running TS Rej off again and see whether the later FWs still provide reasonable filtering in that mode. It does seem like it filters out the K band radar sensor I use for QT testing sometimes, so there is likely some always-on K filtering you can't disable (like the Unidens).

The TSR filter on the Radensos seems to work differently than other TSR filters, in that it is not simply a delay. Even on TSR High it can react quickly to some signals, while completely ignoring others. It's really interesting, and I want to run more tests to try to figure out exactly whats going on.
 

Choose Life

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#18
I've run both TS Rej High and Low, but I usually run Low day-to-day (Note the Pro M has no separate K filter like the RC-M).

I should try running TS Rej off again and see whether the later FWs still provide reasonable filtering in that mode. It does seem like it filters out the K band radar sensor I use for QT testing sometimes, so there is likely some always-on K filtering you can't disable (like the Unidens).

The TSR filter on the Radensos seems to work differently than other TSR filters, in that it is not simply a delay. Even on TSR High it can react quickly to some signals, while completely ignoring others. It's really interesting, and I want to run more tests to try to figure out exactly whats going on.
I didnt know it did not have a separate bsm filter so definitely some other filtering going on

My guess would be they needed the delay but so does uniden 300ms on the K filter
Its probably 0.4 and 0.9 tsr low/high but thats a guess

It would be very interesting to see the the differences off/low/high

Uniden did have always on K filtering pre 1.31
I could run it at 100% all the way through GA no k filter and the ramp up changed and only a few more falses
But its reactivity could of possibly been cut 300ms

After the 1.31 update it was unbearable to run filter off in traffic

It will be interesting to see what fimware tweaks will do the pro m and R3 for that matter in the future
 

InsipidMonkey

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#19
I'm convinced they're using the extra information coming from the MRCD detection board added to the Pro M to filter out BSM, and it's working phenomenally well.

AFAIK, all BSM radar is FMCW (or FM-Chirp/FM-Pulse) modulated since it needs to provide distance information. Some of these signals (eg the regular pulses) are easy to filter out, and manufacturers have had these figured out for awhile. Then there are the falses from Acuras and CR-Vs that are problematic for most detectors.

[Speculation] I think this is due to the FM sweep used by these systems being quite narrow (on the order of 3 MHz), and detectors not being able to reliably distinguish this from CW radar. The addition of a MRCD board allows for more accurate identification of these FM modulated signals, and unambiguous rejection of these falses. [/Speculation]

Even though I'm in the US, I did try running MRCD/MRCT/Gatso on for awhile (with MR Filter High) just to see what it was like, and it wasn't bad. Most of the falses were to Gatso (I was unable to identify what was setting it off), but if you can disable that band it's pretty well behaved. Interestingly, the vehicles that cause MRCD falses are very different than those that cause BSM falses. One example is new F150s which seem to reliably cause MRCD falses, but I've never seen them false K band on any detector.
 

synistyr

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I'm convinced they're using the extra information coming from the MRCD detection board added to the Pro M to filter out BSM, and it's working phenomenally well.

AFAIK, all BSM radar is FMCW (or FM-Chirp/FM-Pulse) modulated since it needs to provide distance information. Some of these signals (eg the regular pulses) are easy to filter out, and manufacturers have had these figured out for awhile. Then there are the falses from Acuras and CR-Vs that are problematic for most detectors.

[Speculation] I think this is due to the FM sweep used by these systems being quite narrow (on the order of 3 MHz), and detectors not being able to reliably distinguish this from CW radar. The addition of a MRCD board allows for more accurate identification of these FM modulated signals, and unambiguous rejection of these falses. [/Speculation]

Even though I'm in the US, I did try running MRCD/MRCT/Gatso on for awhile (with MR Filter High) just to see what it was like, and it wasn't bad. Most of the falses were to Gatso (I was unable to identify what was setting it off), but if you can disable that band it's pretty well behaved. Interestingly, the vehicles that cause MRCD falses are very different than those that cause BSM falses. One example is new F150s which seem to reliably cause MRCD falses, but I've never seen them false K band on any detector.

Being deep in MRCD country I've only ever run MRCD on (narrow) ALL the time.

Never had any falsing with Fords.

That being said, falses always alerts as MRCD falses.

What does it alert when you get a BSM false but with MRCD off?





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