Who's testing the k-band and x-band range of the RC-M?

Discussion in 'Radenso' started by infiniti, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. infiniti

    infiniti Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    For those of us in areas that rely on k-band and x-band range, it would be great to see how it stacks up to the R3 or DSP. Quiet is great, as long as there is plenty of range in those two bands for me. @Vortex?
     
  2. Vortex

    Vortex Making Videos Administrator Advanced User Premium Member

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    I tested the RC M on K band this weekend, as well as the R3 and a bunch of remotes. Gotta do the Spectre video of the RC M and then I'll get to the long range test results.

    It did well with TSR off. I did see a reduction in range with TSR Low and then even more with TSR High. I did similar testing with the R3 at Highway, Advanced 70%, and City mode, the Max Ci 360 with Highway, Auto, and AutoLoK, the NR DSP with its K band filter on, etc.

    I'll get the results up as soon as I'm able. :)
     
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  3. infiniti

    infiniti Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Fantastic! I knew you had all of these installed and was hoping you were testing them. That's precisely the test I was thinking of...show the effects of more and more filtering in these units.

    Look forward to seeing the results. Thank you!
     
  4. Jon at noLimits

    Jon at noLimits Premium Member Advanced User MFG/Vendor Premium Member

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    There is no on-axis sensitivity loss with K band filtering on the RC M, and a minor effect on extreme off axis shots (this was at 50 degrees off axis)

    rcmfrontonaxisk. rcmfrontoffaxisk.
     
  5. Vortex

    Vortex Making Videos Administrator Advanced User Premium Member

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    I've noticed results can vary depending on the topography of the course. As always, no one test can provide all the information.
     
  6. Jon at noLimits

    Jon at noLimits Premium Member Advanced User MFG/Vendor Premium Member

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    Totally agree! It's super important that we get many test results to guard against any one test being inaccurate.
     
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  7. Vortex

    Vortex Making Videos Administrator Advanced User Premium Member

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    Here's a quick compilation of my K band test runs with the RC M so that you can see what I saw. I ran it against the Falcon HR.



    Settings were Highway mode, K Wide, and I varied the TSR levels. I just went out to the car to doublecheck the low speed muting threshold and ensure that wasn't a factor. It's set to 20mph and I was doing 35-40 for the test runs.

    I haven't sat down to do any measurements of the exact TSR delays with the RC M, but assuming TSR is simply adding a delay on K band to filter out brief alerts, traditionally I do see that leading to reduced detection ranges.

    www.rdforum.org: Testing how Auto Mode & TSR reduce range

    Something interesting I found, looking back at previous tests, I didn't see a huge drop in range with the HD+ when testing different TSR levels. Curiously, looking at the M3's on that course, sometimes they showed a range drop and sometimes they didn't.

    www.rdforum.org: Remote RD Testing, Dec 2016: Stinger VIP, Net Radar, Radenso HD+, 9500ci, Plus, O

    Could you tell me a little bit more about how the RC M's K band / TSR filter works? Is it an added delay? Is it doing some signal analysis?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  8. infiniti

    infiniti Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    With falcon k band in my area, there is no way I could run TSR high based on your test. Would be interested to see your findings on R3 comparisons when you get them up.

    For those that have the RC-m and say it is quiet, what TSR settings are you running?
     
  9. Jon at noLimits

    Jon at noLimits Premium Member Advanced User MFG/Vendor Premium Member

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    Correct, because there should not be. So we have multiple tests from you and other users indicating that there is no performance drop, vs. one test that does not. Sounds like we need some more testing, especially given the strange results you found with some other detectors! Data is a good thing!

    It is not just an added delay.
     
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  10. Vortex

    Vortex Making Videos Administrator Advanced User Premium Member

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    Looking back at that other test with the HD+ some more, I also saw some run-to-run variation between even one detector running the same settings. The Stinger is a good example. Different detection ranges without varying the settings due to external variables. Maybe due to traffic or whatever else. So that test doesn't show a clear trend.

    Anyways, based on what I've seen so far with the RC M in my own experience, TSR Off > TSR Low > TSR High. The video makes that pretty clear. I saw similar results with the Uniden and Escort products too, but of course their K band filters are implemented differently so it's not exactly the same thing.
     
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  11. Brainstorm69

    Brainstorm69 TXCTG 2016 MOTY Advanced User Premium Member

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    @Vortex - Nice testing. Looks like some more testing is in order. Maybe @Jag42 and I can get some done soon.
     
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  12. infiniti

    infiniti Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Really appreciate the real world testing and user reported experiences.
     
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  13. Jon at noLimits

    Jon at noLimits Premium Member Advanced User MFG/Vendor Premium Member

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    Would be a good data point as well to test TSR High with our recommended settings (K Narrow) vs the K Wide that Vortex tested. Might not change anything but worth a test since it was our recommended setting and what most testing was done with.

    We did not focus as much testing on K Wide since virtually none of our customers run it.
     
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  14. Jro121782

    Jro121782 Learning to Drive General User

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    Living in New York, k and ka narrow will eventually lead to a ticket. So test runs in wide is very much appreciated @Vortex.
     
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  15. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin Eat Lead Mothertrucker!! Advanced User Premium Member

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    Some immediate thoughts.

    1) Running K narrow is not OK. I live in a K band radar hotspot and have had several instances (using other detectors) that K narrow is insufficient.

    2) I would humbly suggest Vortex try running it with low speed muting off. I've seen several tests by members with the RCM, and I don't recall any of them had low speed muting on. We all traditionally use Auto City (but above a certain speed it functions like on HWY mode e.g. with reduced sensitivity off)

    3) I second the motion asking for more data. This info is concerning, and I'll be the first to admit that, and it doesn't sit well with me! That said, it's an oddity of a result given that I've seen many, but until Radenso can explain it, I'm not writing this one off.
     
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  16. Vortex

    Vortex Making Videos Administrator Advanced User Premium Member

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    If the RC M really should have the same results with different TSR levels, well then that'd be an issue too. The test runs that I did with TSR High, it just about got C/Owned. Twice.

    It did worse than an R3 in City mode. It did worse than a Max Ci 360 running AutoLoK. (Like the other detectors, it did much better without the K band filters too.) If the RC M's range really is unaffected by TSR, then I suppose we've got another issue to address. I get that the Falcon HR is a tough gun and this is a tough test course, but the RC M is certainly able of providing adequate range against it. Just back down TSR. ;)

    As for testing with K Narrow, I certainly could test that too. I ran with Ka Narrow, 2/5/8, to speed up scanning. I'm personally not a fan of K Narrow (and I don't fully understand how it even works if the detector can't accurately determine a frequency in the first place, but that's another issue). I could see Ka Narrow making an impact to range, but I'd be surprised to see K Narrow substantially impact range. Given that that's how it's set up from the factory and I'm using in tune K band guns, why not?

    As for low speed muting, yeah honestly I just forgot. Normally I turn that off for testing just in case so that it doesn't inadvertently affect things. That said, it should have zero effect on the audio alert and detection range on video since I stayed well above the threshold anyways. I could test with it off, but does anyone really expect that to affect things? Speaking of testing the detector the way it's set up from the factory, one could also say that we should test with low speed muting enabled.
     
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  17. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin Eat Lead Mothertrucker!! Advanced User Premium Member

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    I agree with everything that you wrote. That said, firmware is just code, and as someone who works in a business whose livelihood is dependent on code and getting it right, I've seen some really effed up bugs in my time. So Vortex, I don't expect a difference, but I'd like to rule out a possible SW bug, if that makes sense. (re low speed muting).

    I'm just a silly penguin, but I would really appreciate additional datapoints so we can get to the bottom of this. Otherwise my new name is superangstypenguin :D
     
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  18. Vortex

    Vortex Making Videos Administrator Advanced User Premium Member

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    haha yeah that's a good point too. I'll turn it off next time either way and give you a long distance high five when I do. :D
     
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  19. benzr

    benzr Been there done that !! Original V1 user !! Advanced User

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    Yeah this is concerning me too

    I love Radenso products as they have saved me many many times!!

    But .... still. ...

    DEFINITELY MORE TESTS ARE IN ORDER !!

    Quite surprised by results ... actually.

    Benzr


    Posted from my iPhone using the RDF Mobile App!
     
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  20. TurboDriver

    TurboDriver PSL + 50, every now and then Advanced User Premium Member

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    ...
    Couple things that I am curious about...Maybe you @Vortex can explore these or at least see if you notice anything similar.

    From my experience X band on the DSP performs more like the original R3 before they upped the sensitivity during beta testing so I am wondering what the DSP sensitivity is on X compared to others, it seems low to me.

    TSR on the R3 and DSP seem quirky to my timing testing ( Bushnell at 24.125 - I could not find a set delay like I can on Escorts or NR-O)...It does not seem to be a set amount of delay like traditional TSR. For example it seems to alert to a faster shots that fall within a certain time frame, say 0.1-0.3 seconds but then not alert for slightly longer shots until they reach the 0.6-0.8 second range (I have not logged exact times this is just for a general reference). Maybe the Radenso has some similar type algo to filter only set types, frequencies or timing of signals.

    What K band frequency is the testing gun? Has anyone noticed different K filtering or ranges based on frequency alone? I know this would be hard to test because different guns having different power, but I was wondering if certain range of known false frequencies are given more filtering.


    Looking forward to all the results
     
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