2 years with the Stinger VIP - A longterm review (2 Viewers)

GotWake

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Are you 100% positive there is no interference from running 2 rd's? Have you done individual testing? Thanks for the review.
I guess you can’t say 100 percent. But, I really haven’t noticed anything weird with the VIP/Redline and the VIP/R3 (rear patch only). When I ran the Redline with my STIR+ just for comparison, I've seen the Redline do weird things. Which you wouldn’t think would happen.

The VIP does all the weird lockout K band LEOs, great Ka range one time, sleep on ka the next time with or without running another RD.
 

Jag42

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Yeah stinger techs could see the interference from my STIR that was 5ft away from the patch by just looking at the log files.

So you have a point Jag42 re interference but I was told by Stinger that as long as the source is behind the patch it's fine.
Stinger lost thier Head Engineer on the patch antenna about 2 years ago. You would be surprised,what Rd engineers don't know. I would not down play another Rd's performance based on a dual in cabin setup. I'm guilty of it myself,but mostly do it to study interference patterns etc..
 

beingaware

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Every time I see a thread about the Stinger VIP, I wish there was an open source community supporting the device. How freaking awesome would that be?
We already exported the SD card ages ago and dumped it semi publicly.
The whole unpacked os...


I'm sure someone could create an open source project if someone here had the skills.
 

PointerCone

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It would be great to have the firmware, but it does not resolve the largest issue: Price. Just like ER, Stinger positioned this at the way upper end of the market where the pyramid of buyers is the slimmest. I've been watching the Stinger market for the past three years and used ones are going at less than 50% their retail. If Stinger had positioned this new at $2000-$2500, they would've sold a lot more than they did ( nothing wrong with volume). Brilliant technology, poor execution.
 

whitewiskers

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It would be great to have the firmware, but it does not resolve the largest issue: Price. Just like ER, Stinger positioned this at the way upper end of the market where the pyramid of buyers is the slimmest. I've been watching the Stinger market for the past three years and used ones are going at less than 50% their retail. If Stinger had positioned this new at $2000-$2500, they would've sold a lot more than they did ( nothing wrong with volume). Brilliant technology, poor execution.
As all have indicated in the various posts above, Stinger is a potentially fabulous product, but the handling of how it approaches upgrades and refinements leaves an awful lot to be desired. The lack of any reasonable interaction with the engineers except on rare occasions does not make users very comfortable with the product. Thanks for all the useful experience material.
 

jdong

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I guess you can’t say 100 percent. But, I really haven’t noticed anything weird with the VIP/Redline and the VIP/R3 (rear patch only). When I ran the Redline with my STIR+ just for comparison, I've seen the Redline do weird things. Which you wouldn’t think would happen.

The VIP does all the weird lockout K band LEOs, great Ka range one time, sleep on ka the next time with or without running another RD.
Ditto. With or without another RD running, the Stinger VIP filtering algorithms produced monster detections one minute and extremely odd behavior the next. Running alone, it's really easy to attempt to dismiss it as "oh maybe it's IO" or "oh maybe you actually find the first CHP cruiser shooting 1 bar of 35.5 from 20 feet away", but running it with another detector had been the only way I could've confirmed that the VIP was behaving oddly with police radar. Those confirmations were subsequently backed by logging.

BTW, that is something really awesome about Stinger VIP. The logging modes can record a ton of data regarding your radar and laser encounters, and as long as you can get a slice of engineering time, it exposes a lot of data retroactively about what happened. It theoretically should give Stinger an advantage at debugging these kinds of issues, but it seemed like the engineers were always busy with something else.


I would roughly say that "oddball detections" were maybe a 5% occurrence, but man, seeing your fancy top-of-the-line RD completely miss rolling CO or 34.7 speed signs a couple times is all it takes to completely shake your confidence in the system.

--- DOUBLEPOST MERGED ---

It would be great to have the firmware, but it does not resolve the largest issue: Price. Just like ER, Stinger positioned this at the way upper end of the market where the pyramid of buyers is the slimmest. I've been watching the Stinger market for the past three years and used ones are going at less than 50% their retail. If Stinger had positioned this new at $2000-$2500, they would've sold a lot more than they did ( nothing wrong with volume). Brilliant technology, poor execution.
I dunno, I don't want this to get off-topic and turn into an Escort thread, but IMO ER's similar-priced product actually works and is selling extremely well. And after using both for roughly the same amount of time, it's easy to understand why.
 

mikedotd

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Are you 100% positive there is no interference from running 2 rd's? Have you done individual testing? Thanks for the review.
This is an excellent question.

Regarding interference causing the VIP to filter police K-band and cause weird behavior I don't believe so, as Stinger HQ support has analyzed my logs many times before on this issue and confirmed that there was a legit signal and the VIP did decide it was something that should be filtered/muted, and they were always aware that I was running 2 RD's. More recently they've been forthcoming and offered an acknowledgement that the K-band filtering issue was known to them but still not resolved. I've also seen this behavior when running the VIP alone, driving through an area with no stationary falses and having a lone LEO pass, looking down and seeing the VIP display yellow showing "falselist".

In regards to performance related testing, I've run the VIP/V1/Redline/Max1/Max360/R3 alone against some stationary on-axis sources and my VIP has consistently stood out from the pack. I also have 2 Ka off-axis spots (1 a local PD with a cruiser parked in the back and the other a speed sign in a state park next to a highway) where only the Redline and VIP have been able to detect the weak 35.5GHz signals so far. Of course this isn't apples to apples testing since the VIP's antenna is below the front bumper and the windshield mounts have been below my rearview mirror, but these represent real world configurations against real world radar sources.

As an aside v4.x does seem to have addressed the weird strong Ka signals disappearing issue that many had seen in testing and rear world on v3.x. If it didn't autolearn stationary Ka-band signals and mute them I'd have no concerns running it for Ka duty. K-band I have 0 confidence running it due to the way it filters police K-band so often like BSM. I've seen this behavior on all sensitivity settings.
 
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Shanetrain

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Stinger need to work more closely with the community to develop the firmware further.
I believe it can get better if they share a bit more.

If we knew what
-BSM’s filtering are active
-Algo’s for LowK are active
-Priority frequencies are turned on
The VIP could be optimised better for specific regions.

Is my Australian VIP filtering out US and Euro cars that it will never encounter, wasting resources?
Same for the US firmware, is that filtering cars that it will never see?
Is the US firmware running LowK detection in the background wasting resources and scans?

We need more control of the VIP, I would love a simple menu that I could see all the cars/BSM active and what LowK were active and have the ability to turn them off.
I believe filtering is killing our performance
 
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hiddencam

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Enjoyed the review thanks for the contribution @mikedotd !! It seems like you've been supremely patient with what I would harshly describe an expensive piece of (insert respectable word for the one I'm thinking of) ... at least until it's fixed. It's a crying shame they don't have the desire and/or ability to fix those not-effing-insignificant issues. There's no way I would run one, and I'm not big on two detectors in the same cabin anymore.
 

NPark

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Thanks for the write up mikedotd! Very informative! Thanks for including some vids as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

te37

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I have had my stinger for about two years now and I can parrot the same feeling everyone else has had. One time the detector is amazing and the next encounter might detect ka band slower than my eyesight. Never the less (knock on wood) the stinger has never left me with my pants down so that’s nice. My auto brightness has never worked and lockouts can be a joke on this thing. The filtering is old and can be annoying with punch throughs and it seems to get confused at times with multiple signals. Very poor 1st gen touch screen and washes out easily in the sunlight. I don’t think I will be transferring the stinger to my next car but I will not be removing it just to replace it with something else.
 

ohmygodoui

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In early 2016 I decided to purchase a Stinger VIP with 1 front antenna to replace my Beltronics STiR-Plus. At the time car BSM systems were becoming more and more common and the custom installed radar detectors available like the Escort 9500ci and it's cousin the Beltronics STiR-Plus just couldn't filter them. If you drove on a busy highway you'd frequently get IO like K-band alerts, desensitizing you to K-band entirely.

The Stinger VIP was the first custom installed RD that could begin to filter these BSM systems beyond using timing delays like TSR or lowered sensitivity like Auto on the Escort/Beltronics products. Not only was it able to actually filter out some BSM systems, but you could log radar encounters and send them into Stinger to help them improve their filtering. There were a few forum members who were openly working with Stinger to help develop the product for the US market, and the perception (at least to me) was that we finally had not just a radar detector product that might get a firmware update every couple years, but a platform that would be continually improved upon as the RD landscape evolved. Early testing showed it outperforming the mighty Redline. I had to have one. I thought this might be the last RD I need for many years to come.

Once it arrived I did a temporary install with the VIP's patch antenna mounted on my passenger sunvisor and went out for a drive; I couldn't wait to try this thing out. My first Ka-band encounter that night was 33.8GHz while I also had my V1 running along side with custom sweeps, and the VIP DESTROYED it! What a great start!


I like doing my own installs, and the VIP is one of the easiest to install requiring only a single cable between the engine bay and the interior cabin. Even if you want to add a rear antenna or laser jammers, you still only need that 1 cable going through the firewall. I wish other manufactures would follow their example.

The interface to the VIP uses a touchscreen instead of physical buttons. This has some pluses and minuses. On the one hand it looks amazing and they can continually update the interface as time goes by. Stinger uses these relatively large displays (they have a 3.3" and 5.1" diagonal version) to communicate information with colors; Green means no signals detected, Yellow means a signal is being muted (falselist) either because it's learned that signal is a stationary false via GPS or is a BSM system, or Red which means it's alerting to the signal. If you have a rear antenna it will also provide directional information. There's also a cool spectrum analyzer display option that shows the frequencies being detected, but in practice it's tough to read while driving. The downside to the touchscreen is that trying to operate the VIP while driving is difficult because you can't feel what you're doing, you can only glance over and take a stab with your finger and hope it hits where you intended, as you're otherwise focused on driving. A lot of modern car radios have this problem now too. I now know my preference is to have physical buttons for controls. This interface is where things began to go down hill with me and the VIP.

The original VD-10 display that it came with wasn't readable in direct sunlight and was later replaced by the VD-20. The VD-20 is VERY bright in direct sunlight, but it's not visible head on while wearing polarized sunglasses. If you can't see the screen, you can't adjust it's settings or see which frequency is being detected. With that said, the first week I had the product the auto-brightness feature didn't work properly. For me there was no happy medium brightness that I could use, I need the display at full brightness at day and very low brightness at night, otherwise I either can't read the screen or the interior of my car is lit up and blinding. I reported this issue to Stinger and they never came back with a solution. That was 2 years ago and I'm still having issues where the auto-brightness will stop working for weeks and then just start working again on it's own. When this last happened a couple weeks ago, I reported it to Stinger HQ and learned it was a known bug they still haven't addressed... after 2 years.

The audio alerts are problematic too. X and Ka are a distinct sound, but K-band and laser are comparatively quiet. With the volume down so that X/Ka are reasonable you run the risk of missing a K/laser alert. Keep it high enough for K/laser and your ears will be bleeding every time you encounter Ka.

On to the core of the product though, radar detection.

The Stinger VIP uses the term "FalseList" when it mutes learned stationary radar signals (GPS lockouts) and when it's filtering BSM's. While others have reported problems with the GPS lockouts, these have worked well for me. The lockout radius aren't too big and I haven't had any situations where these stationary falses weren't learned, but I do occasionally see them alert due to weather related frequency drift, which I had also experienced with my Beltronics STiR-Plus.

BSM filtering is good, but like many top tier RD's it will alert to BSM systems that it can't filter from many car lengths away. Sometimes the VIP will filter tougher BSM's like Acura/Honda, but then allow punch-throughs unlike other RD's that will either filter or not filter a signal. I've also experienced a 10 mile trip behind an Acura MDX that had my V1 alerting the entire time but the VIP completely filtered.

Police radar detection on the other hand is unreliable. About 50% of the time I encounter police K-band the Stinger VIP will either alternate between alerting and treating the signal like a BSM and filter it, or filter it entirely. I've had this happen many, many times in areas that have no stationary falses, so it's not a GPS related issue. I've been sending Stinger HQ logs and video of these encounters for 2 years now, and it's still an issue. I've had to run 2 RD's because I can't trust the Stinger VIP to actually alert me to police K-band. As an enthusiast I've been OK with running 2 RD's, but I don't think this product is safe when run alone if K-band is a threat where you drive.

Then there's Ka-band. The VIP is HOT on Ka, besting a Uniden R3 that I recently purchased both on and off-axis. But there's always a downside to the Stinger VIP, and in this case Ka-band is also auto-learned for GPS lockouts. So if you have regular speed traps that you encounter with a Ka radar source, the Stinger VIP will learn and mute them. There's no way to limit which bands are auto-learned, it's an all or nothing proposition. You can't turn off auto-learning either, only FalseList entirely with no option for manual only lockouts. I only just learned of this "feature" after 22 months of ownership while reporting it to Stinger as a bug and having them reply that auto-locking Ka-band is by design.

2 years ago I purchased the Stinger VIP knowing it was still in development, but unfortunately it remains in the same state today with little improvements. I've sent logs and video to Stinger HQ in the Netherlands (where their engineers are located) regarding all of these issues (and more) as they happened, but as of v4.0.52UK and this date (2/14/2018) they all remain unaddressed. I don't know if Stinger is unwilling or just unable to fix these problems, but at this point I find I still can't trust the product to reliably alert me to radar, it's primary purpose. Making the situation even more frustrating is that the hardware is capable of being HOT but unreliable due to buggy software that COULD be fixed but so far has not.

-------------------------------------

Good
* Radar antenna is HOT and has beat everything else I've owned, including the Uniden R3
* Display's use of colors
* Single cable between engine bay and interior cabin makes install of RD/Laser easy

Bad
* Police K band is often filtered like BSM's
* Police Ka band is learned and locked out
* 2 years and the VIP is still in a broken state of product development

Ugly
* Display is hard to read with polarized glasses
* Audio alerts are quiet for K/Laser
* Poor ramp-up
* Touching the display often results in a double press, muting and unmuting the alert
* Auto-brightness randomly stops working
* Only a single radar frequency is displayed at a time unless you use the impractical spectrum analyzer mode
* GPS and BSM filtering both display as "FalseList" with no differentiation

TL;DR - The Stinger VIP was promising but Stinger has failed to make a reliable radar detector after more than 2 years of development. Maybe someday they'll finish it, but for now I would avoid it.
Hi i have 4 laser at the front, do you mean to say you drove around with one laser all that time ?

I have my stinger vip since november 2016, and i deactivate K band and put my Speedsense depending the environment , little road or highway ( belgium is a little country which small roads not nice long stretches like Australia.

I deactivate X,K band altogether .

you say :
Ka radar source, the Stinger VIP will learn and mute them. There's no way to limit which bands are auto-learned, it's an all or nothing proposition. You can't turn off auto-learning either, only FalseList entirely with no option for manual only lockouts.

Do you mean i need to deactivate falselist to be certain about KA band ?

Is there somewhere some sort of experience and how to use interprete guide for the stinger - vip
i see you are very knowledgeable and experienced

thanks for the review
 

mikedotd

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Hi i have 4 laser at the front, do you mean to say you drove around with one laser all that time ?

I have my stinger vip since november 2016, and i deactivate K band and put my Speedsense depending the environment , little road or highway ( belgium is a little country which small roads not nice long stretches like Australia.

I deactivate X,K band altogether .

you say :
Ka radar source, the Stinger VIP will learn and mute them. There's no way to limit which bands are auto-learned, it's an all or nothing proposition. You can't turn off auto-learning either, only FalseList entirely with no option for manual only lockouts.

Do you mean i need to deactivate falselist to be certain about KA band ?

Is there somewhere some sort of experience and how to use interprete guide for the stinger - vip
i see you are very knowledgeable and experienced

thanks for the review
My laser system was 3 pairs of the square RX/TX's on the front of a VW Golf R.

You are very fortunate that you can turn off X/K-band. You are correct, to prevent Ka-band from being added to the FalstList you must turn off FalseList. Because you do not have X/K enabled this should not be a problem for you. The FalseList feature is primarily used to learn stationary radar falses and mute them. Here in the US it is very rare to have a stationary Ka signal that is not a threat, and the police often will park in the same spot with their radar guns. Other radar detectors that can auto-learn stationary radar and mute them only apply this logic to X/K, as Ka is almost always a true threat. Stinger for some reason choose to also learn Ka, which at least where I live is very dangerous.

I don't know of a how to use guide for the VIP, unfortunately Stinger has not done a great job of explaining the features so we have had to learn it's behavior "in the field". The support person at the Stinger HQ email address I mentioned has been very helpful explaining how things work though, which is why I recommended contacting them. Their support is very good, but their product development has been very slow and buggy. The last update we received was May 2017, 1 year ago. I really hope they release something soon.
 

dmlgc

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I'm still using my original stinger purchase (14/09/2015) going on three years. I have BMW X6M with the antenna mounted outside lower front grill, no problems it works fine. I have three laser receivers (cube) two in kidney grill near each headlight and one in grill just below kidney, I have three fiber transmitters one above each light and one in center grill next to receiver. The radar works great , we travel between Arizona and Carlsbad,CA and it detects long before we get anywhere near the source.The lasers have saved me three times.
So I am happy with my purchase and after three years feel the value is there. Sorry it has not worked as well for others.

IMG_0100new.jpg
 

ohmygodoui

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I'm still using my original stinger purchase (14/09/2015) going on three years. I have BMW X6M with the antenna mounted outside lower front grill, no problems it works fine. I have three laser receivers (cube) two in kidney grill near each headlight and one in grill just below kidney, I have three fiber transmitters one above each light and one in center grill next to receiver. The radar works great , we travel between Arizona and Carlsbad,CA and it detects long before we get anywhere near the source.The lasers have saved me three times.
So I am happy with my purchase and after three years feel the value is there. Sorry it has not worked as well for others.

View attachment 80598
i correct my early statement , i have 3 laser in the front,, and the one installed in my 250 mercedes sport at the rear, i did not use for my cla45 amg, it stays in the box, i don't have the heart to ruin the back of my new car .

Everything is working fine too , no fines yet
 

ohmygodoui

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now all-fiber laser is out , i will implement the rear end in my AMG pretty soon
i feel a little bit naked without it

reply from stinger HQ regarding my installation and prices : in dutch

Geachte heer De Decker,
Jazeker u heeft de laser computer waarover in deze mail wordt gesproken. Dat hebben we ook nimmer ontkent hoor. Het lastige is dat de namen verwarrend zijn voor u als consument. Als consumentenprijzen beschikbaar zijn gaan we contact met u opnemen omtrent de mogelijkheden.
Nog even geduld alstublieft.

Kind regards,

Marcel IJff
Manager Front Office

Tel. +31 (0) 252 418 095.
P.O. Box 132, 2160 AC Lisse, The Netherlands
www.stinger.com


Op 25 jul. 2018, om 09:41 heeft Telenet <rdecker@telenet.be> het volgende geschreven:


Dus Ik heb wel dégelijk ( Freedom )
Laser center LFL-Center-20
Ik sluit mijn serialnummer lijst in
( er kunnen foutjes zitten in de serialnummers heeft men me gezegd )
<image1.png>
Indien dit ok weet ik waar ik kan van dromen
Ronny de Decker

On 25 Jul 2018, at 09:16, Stinger <flits@stinger.com> wrote:

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We are proud to present Fiber Laser, with all-fiber laser sensors | Web version
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Beste Stinger Dealer,

Vorige week informeerden we u over de introductie van Stinger’s Fiber Laser, een doorbraak op formaat en met onovertroffen prestaties. In deze email zetten wij voor uw gemak de details van dit ‘kleine wonder’ op een rij.
Hoe heet deze all-Fiber laser-bescherming van Stinger?
Fiber Laser
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Wat is de grote doorbraak?
Fiber Laser maakt uitsluitend gebruik van Fiber sensoren. Dat is een enorme innovatie. Stinger maakte - als enige - al gebruik van Fiber transmitter sensoren. Echter, onze receiver sensor - de Laser Receiver Square - was wel behoorlijk klein, maar nog niet van het minuscule Fiber formaat. Met de introductie van Fiber Laser verandert dat: zowel de transmitters als de receivers zijn nu beide leverbaar als Fiber sensoren.
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Als het uitzenden met de Fiber transmitter al als kunst werd gezien, dan is het ontvangen op een paar vierkante millimeter ‘hoge kunst’. Velen hielden dat dan ook voor onmogelijk. Het was zeker niet eenvoudig, maar gelukkig schaardden wij ons niet onder die ‘velen’ en hebben we daadwerkelijk het onwaarschijnlijke gepresteerd: het vatten van enorme power en gevoeligheid in bijna onzichtbare oppervlakten. En dat is precies wat Fiber Laser doet.
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Heel mooi zo klein, maar hoe zit het met de prestaties?
Zoals gezegd, Fiber Laser biedt onovertroffen prestaties - ook tegen de moderne laserguns. Zo klein als hij is, is Fiber Laser receiver zelfs gevoeliger dan zijn veel grotere voorganger, de Laser Receiver Square.
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Vervangt 'Fiber Laser' Stinger’s 'Freedom Laser' en 'Laser HD'?
Ja, Fiber Laser vervangt beide.Fiber Laser vervangt beide ‘oude’ Stinger laser-producten en kan dus als ‘Laser-only’ product werken met zijn eigen LED of Strip Display, maar kan ook het laserwerk voor zijn rekening nemen in een Card of VIP configuratie (waar dan tegelijk ook radar-bescherming op kan zitten).
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Hoeveel sensoren (laserogen) heb je nodig?
Evenveel als bij de vorige generatie, is ons advies. Dat wil zeggen dat voor basisbescherming - alleen de kentekenplaat aan voor- of achterzijde van de auto - één set sensoren (1 transmitter, 1 receiver) voldoende is. Voor volledige protectie - dus ook de koplampen of achterlichten afdekkende - adviseren wij drie sets (3 transmitters, 3 receivers).
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Met welke Laser Center werkt Fiber Laser?
Fiber Receivers kunnen alleen op het (Freedom) Laser Center (LFL-Center-20) worden aangesloten, dus niet op de voorganger de Laser Analyzer Box-14.
Daarbij is het belangrijk om te weten dat Fiber Receivers niet in combinatie met Square Receivers kunnen worden gebruikt.

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Zijn alle nieuwe prijzen bekend?
Nog niet, maar deze zullen we binnenkort met u delen. Houdt uw email dus aub in de gaten.
Wij vertrouwen erop dat u net zo enthousiast over Fiber Laser zal zijn als wij, zeker nadat u deze innovatie in actie heeft ‘gezien’. Daarnaast, wees ervan verzekerd dat we klaar staan om u te ondersteunen waar nodig. Vragen? Neem aub contact met ons op via +31-252-418095 or mail@stinger.com. We horen graag van u!
Volg ons voor het laatste Fiber Laser en Stinger nieuws.
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Stinger Fiber mailing - July 2018

Daze StingerFlits ontvangt u omdat u als relatie in ons systeem staat of omdat u zich speciaal voor doze nieuwsbrief heeft aangemeld.
Wiljzigingen voorbehouden | © 2018 Stinger | Stinger is part of Carcomputer B.V. | www.stinger.com

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2018 © Stinger
Als je niet langer e-mails van ons wil ontvangen,
 

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beingaware

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They seemed to have gone really quiet again.

Funny that.
 

dmlgc

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So has anyone installed new fiber yet? if you have older VIP do you operate radar as one system and new laser as another system ?
Last time I questioned them new fiber was incompatible with old fiber so you had to replace completely with new fiber as it had a new control system. Was wondering if you can salvage the old VIP radar as it works fine and just have to eat the cost of replacing old fiber.
 

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