V1 Driver might conflict with V1 Unit [my observations]

Discussion in 'Official V1Driver Discussion Section' started by Michael Flare, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. Michael Flare

    Michael Flare My Final Heaven General User

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    Before I explain my observations from my last drive, I have to mention first that I do have an actual SAVVY unit installed (with thumbwheel set at 35MPH). My parts are arriving soon for my other car which will not be equipped with SAVVY unit so I can make a more accurate observation between SAVVY & NO SAVVY. If someone has already made these discoveries on this forum in which I have missed, please let me know. Also, let me know if I have said anything incorrect, and let me know if you have any comments.

    Here is my current setup which is up to date as of February 2018:
    - Valentine One [3.8952]
    - SAVVY (version: S1.0108)
    - V1 Connection LE (version: L1.0010)
    - Concealed Display (version: C2.1300)
    - V1 Connection app (version: 1.51)
    - V1 Driver (version: 2.0.42)

    It is safe to say that if there is any app with the V1 unit combination that runs as perfect and smoothly as possible, it would be the V1 Connetion app from Valentine Research and the V1 unit itself. The app is created by VR and the detector is created by VR them self so it has to have the most compatibility with each other; makes perfect sense. This means that the V1C app has the ability to do a serious "push" for configuration straight to the V1's computer system making it "official". Every single time you make a change in your profile, it will automatically push it to the V1. Every single time you fully close (not leaving it in background, really closing the app) and open it back up, it will automatically scan the V1's current configuration to see if it matches any of the profiles on your V1C app. This means that every single time you open up the app for a drive/configuring, it will ALWAYS find an identical match successfully and there is no problem.

    Now, from my assumption, I though the V1 Driver app is an app that runs alongside with the V1 constantly reading and sending data back and forth telling it to mute or whatever. This basically means that I thought the V1 Driver does not make ANY serious PUSHES to the V1 like the V1C app. However, I don't know exactly how V1 Driver sends data back and forth to the V1 but it is actually tampering with the V1's computer for configuration. Whenever you set the V1 with the V1C app, then it will always startup and find it's identical profile successfully. However, once V1 Driver is even opened at all on main screen or background for an instant (regardless of opening it after background or from being fully closed), the V1C app will no longer find an identical profile match and asks you to select one to push. This will happen every single time EVEN if you close the V1 Driver. A clear evidence of V1 Driver actually altering the configuration can be seen ESPECIALLY for SAVVY settings. Since the SAVVY unit uses the car's OBD2 port for speed detection and the V1 Driver uses GPS to emulate a SAVVY, it doesn't make any sense for the V1 Driver to tap into the SAVVY unit. However, it seems like it really does tamper with either SAVVY or V1 itself. Let's say you never had V1 Driver and only used the V1C app, you can use the thumbwheel speed or override it (let's have both the thumbwheel and override at 35 MPH for this example) with the app's feature by selection your own speed. Open and close the apps as many times as you want to drive, and you will always see the app boot up and display your saved SAVVY settings properly as expected. As soon as V1 Driver opens up for an instant, close it, and then go back to V1C app (open and close both V1C app and V1 Driver in any combination you want, it doesn't matter, I've tried it all). You will see that the V1C will not find an identical profile and if you go to the SAVVY settings on V1C app, the "Current Savvy Setting" will state "0 MPH (overridden)". The only thing you can blame is the V1 Driver, it can't be anything else. We all know the common use of V1C app is to push the main configuration to the V1, close the app, and don't use it for anything else anymore and have V1 Driver or any other app with a lot features take care of the V1 during the drives (we would only go back to V1C app if you wanted to change one of the main configuration). When all toggles for Savvy settings in V1 Driver is turned OFF, it will state "SavvyOffHard Error" in the steering wheel tab of the app.

    The reason why I observed all of this in the first place is because there's something happening that I couldn't explain during the drive no matter how hard I tried figuring it out at the moment. What happens is that when both my SAVVY thumbwheel (doesn't really matter if it's overridden by the V1C app) and V1 Driver SAVVY is set to 35 MPH, my V1 will alert me full volume for K band signals even at 1-3 strength. I highly believe that the V1's K self-mute logic will BYPASS any SAVVY setting if you have the "No Muting above 3 lights on first-encounter" and/or "Un-Mutes above 5 lights". This is an initial signal of 1 or 2 light too! Now, it really makes sense because even though the displays for V1C app and V1 Driver both say the SAVVY is set at 35 MPH, the V1 literally sees it set at 0 MPH (this is shown in V1C app next to "Current SAVVY Setting"). Even if I did set the SAVVY to 0 MPH, why isn't my V1 and V1 Driver taking care of the muting after at all? It beeps for many seconds without muting. Perhaps the tampered and overridden SAVVY setting bypasses ALL muting features regardless of app or V1 itself.

    If there was truly a toggle in V1 Driver that literally disables every trace of SAVVY feature (mainly for those who are running SAVVY unit but want the GPS lockout from V1 Driver), then we could get a better understanding if this conflict is true. I will be observing my entire setup on my other car next week; it's exactly the same setup EXCEPT it will not have SAVVY installed but a direct hard-wire straight to the fuse box like the classic method.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  2. cihkal

    cihkal Level 3 SA Advanced User Acceptus Premium Member

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    So one thing I want to mention is you cannot have V1-Driver running in the background or at all when trying to connect with the V1C app. No two apps, any combination, can communicate with the V1 at the same time... goofy things will happen. I use V1-Driver and use the V1-C app to push different settings to my V1. I have both an iPhone 6s for work and Pixel, both have V1-Driver and I've never seen the issue you're describing. That said I'm not saying you haven't discovered a problem, but we need to make sure you're not causing a problem by mistake with how you're using the apps.

    When you want to use the V1C app I suggest you hit the "bluetooth" button on the bottom left of the main V1-Driver screen, just above the steering wheel. This disconnects V1-Driver from the V1 and prevents it from trying to connect again. Now I say I haven't seen your problem, but I have left V1-Driver connected by mistake and tried using my V1C app. What happens is it can't make a proper connection, but that should be evident when this occurs.

    V1-Driver does not push settings to your V1, but it does read some of the settings. You're actually running a less common setup using the hardware Savvy, but I have heard that your setup works based on other users here. The developer specifically designed V1-Driver to work well with a hardware Savvy if someone has one. Can you try properly deactivating V1-Driver from connecting to your V1 and see if the issue persists?

    Also, do you have the "Override Savvy Thumb-wheel" setting off which is the default setting? If you bumped this on then it would be set at zero I would assume because you need to type in an override speed that comes into effect when you connect with the V1C app. Thus when connected with the V1C app this setting will override the current thumb-wheel setting... maybe that's causing your problem.

    Also, what you mentioned about the muting logic is correct. Under Savvy settings within the app there is a setting for Savvy Unmute enable/disable. I think if you turn this off the V1 will remain muted unless you go above the savvy set point.. so any K mute logic such as the signal strength related conditional statements won't unmute the V1.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  3. Michael Flare

    Michael Flare My Final Heaven General User

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    Yes, I understand that both apps cannot be running at once. That's why I tried different combinations of closing and opening both apps at different times and it is very true.

    Maybe you haven't heard of this problem because you don't have a SAVVY installed? Or do you?

    OMG! I NEVER drove the car WITHOUT V1 Driver, I'm going to try that. What I'm going to observe is absolute muting (especially K band signals with initial strength of 1-3 lights) and see if the problem is there. I'm going to assume it works because no third party has interfered between the two VR products. I'm going to try it soon. Thank you.
     
  4. cihkal

    cihkal Level 3 SA Advanced User Acceptus Premium Member

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    I would try that and see if you can reproduce your issue without V1-Driver being used for the drive. Just make sure you're hitting the "bluetooth button" I mentioned within V1-Driver to make sure it doesn't try to connect with the V1 while in the background. V1-Driver doesn't have to be in the background app list to try connecting so turning the bluetooth scan function off ensures it won't try to do anything.

    Yes, I don't have a Savvy as I use the app for that but I'm trying to help you out.. not discrediting you. You have a lot going on with your setup since you're using a hardware savvy so it's hard to pinpoint what's going on because there are quite a few things that could be causing your issue. I like the idea of you taking V1-Driver out of the equation for your test. See how the V1 responds when you change the savvy settings within the V1C app. Then, if it works start using V1-Driver and maybe you'll discover a bug! If you do then you'll help out the whole community because @mswlogo can make a fix for you and everyone else. Hopefully we get to the bottom of this soon!
    [doublepost=1518199017,1518198144][/doublepost]As it stands I was incorrect from reading older threads here. V1-Driver will override the speed setting of the hardware savvy to whatever is currently set in V1-Driver's savvy setting. It doesn't push any settings to the V1 and only reads what your profile is so it can work with your V1 appropriately.

    So it can interact with the hardware savvy and it does override the thumb wheel setting of the hardware savvy while V1-D is connected. Once it's no longer connected the thumb wheel setting is used to mute the V1. So instead of fighting the hardware savvy it interacts with it and lets you control the savvy mute speed via V1 driver itself. Since V1-Driver also lets you select which bands you want muted by savvy this comes into play as well.. otherwise just using the hardware savvy mutes all bands under the speed limit from what I remember.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  5. mswlogo

    mswlogo Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    There is no problem.

    V1Driver automatically detects your Savvy Hardware and programs it (Transiently) to be compatible with it so that you get the best of both.
    If it didn't do that, the Savvy Hardware would Savvy Mute ALL bands whenever you are under the Dial Speed.
    V1Driver allows selectable Bands on Savvy (with or without the Savvy Hardware).

    The Savvy Override is NOT Stored, even though their application gives the impression that it is Stored, it's NOT.
    Just like the "in the Box" Settings are Not stored in the V1 either, even though they show up "in your profile" (those are not even stored transiently like override is).

    If you just shut off your car and wait (to be sure everything is powered down, my car keeps the OBD port on for few minutes after the car turns off).
    Then start the Car and go into V1Cconnection Application you will see that the Override Savvy is gone and will match your original profile (because it was never stored).

    V1Driver is designed so you don't have to think about it or do anything with or without Savvy Hardware.
    If V1Driver sees Savvy Hardware it will program it and you'll get instant accurate Speed from your car (in tunnels and parking garages) but still allow much more control over what gets muted from V1Driver.
    And MORE importantly, you get to control what DOESN'T get muted.
    If you forget your phone or choose not to run V1Driver, the next time you start your car everything will be back to your Savvy Hardware setup and the Wheel will be active again.
    V1Driver doesn't need to put anything back for this to work, that's how the V1/Savvy Hardware combo works.

    As far as Savvy Hardware alone and K-Muting. I believe if you are under Dial Speed EVERYTHING is muted. If you are above dial speed K-Muting applies.

    Oh as far as your initial problem goes. If you see it not muting K on something that is under 3 lights (with K-Mute enabled). Then send me a (V1DRIVER) recording (not a video). This will contain every packet received from the V1 and every GPS packet. I suspect it might have blipped above 3 lights, for a split second, then dropped below. So fast, you might not see it. Once tripped it won't re-mute (I think there is an option on that too). The recording should have it and you can play it back to double check (but if it's a single measurement followed immediately by a lower ones it might not visually show on screen either). But I can see it in the debugger if it did or why it didn't mute. Please include your forum name with it. And repeat the problem briefly to remind me what I'm looking for.

    If you need help on how to do the recording speak up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  6. Michael Flare

    Michael Flare My Final Heaven General User

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    Thank you so much for your detailed explanation. I will record the exact spot that I've gotten that problem a few times. I'm very new to V1 Driver. Do I need to ENABLE LOGGING to send you this information?

    Is this what I do exactly?
    - Press "Record", drive into the zone to get some readings, press "Save", and then "Send Recording File"?
     
  7. mswlogo

    mswlogo Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    That's a great question on the log. But you don't need to enable logging for the Recording. But it certainly won't hurt.

    It always has a "rolling" recording running by default (2 minutes long by default). Just hit "Save" after driving through the zone. There is a shortcut for Saving, in that you just hold down the Mute button down.
    You can then "Load" and "Play" (what you saved) to verify that you did capture the zone you wanted before sending it (you also check the geography that was saved on the map).
    Even if it doesn't exhibit the problem when playing back please send it anyway if you think it didn't do the right thing.
     
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  8. Michael Flare

    Michael Flare My Final Heaven General User

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    Okay. One last question I have for you for now. The iPhone setting for "Location Services", I am confused about these two options of "Always" and "While Using" for V1 Driver. I primarily want to leave V1 Driver in the BACKGROUND and my phone's screen off (sleep button) WHILE V1 Driver does it's magic with GPS lockout and learning. What is the difference between the two location services for V1 Driver?
     
  9. mswlogo

    mswlogo Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    You want Always.
     
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  10. PointerCone

    PointerCone M3 Kng Advanced User Premium Member

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    Hey Mike, what engine is in your vehicle and what's the qtr mile times & speeds?? :confused:
     
  11. Michael Flare

    Michael Flare My Final Heaven General User

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    What the, how is this relevant? LOL. I usually never speak about my engine for the track car, I'm sorry. Also, I don't do drag racing, only circuit and autocross racing so I have no idea how fast it is in the quarter mile; it's a completely different sport.
     
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  12. PointerCone

    PointerCone M3 Kng Advanced User Premium Member

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    Just asking..............wtf!!

    I asked the qtr mile time because its a great indicator of total performance as far as HP, TQ and acceleration.
     
  13. The Only Sarge

    The Only Sarge 7 decades of hauling ass Advanced User MFG/Vendor

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    The GTO is setup for rally as you know PC. We do run it @ Houston 1/4 from time to time for ****s and grins.
    The 408 Stroker pushes that bucket of bolts to the tune of 10:88 trapping @ 133mph. Very consistent.
     
  14. Michael Flare

    Michael Flare My Final Heaven General User

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    I drove the car a little WITHOUT the V1 Driver. It drives SO SMOOTH! OMG! You can constantly see the mode/bogey indicator flash back and forth from "C" when the V1 mutes the system. It even doesn't alert max volume BEFORE the V1's mute either! It's most likely because of the K self-logic mute feature doing it's thing initially. It was extremely smooth, no wonder VR only created V1 and SAVVY without anything else. LOL

    I'm definitely still going to drive WITH V1 Driver though. I changed the AutoMute time to AFTER 1.0 SECONDS for K band and enabled AUTOSNOOZE too. It's such a game changer! I'm so happy now. I really do want that super short quick beep BETWEEN K self-logic mute finishes and before V1 Driver auto mutes because it makes me consider that signal since it's been lingering this far so it's a possible threat. So it just beeps once to get my attention and auto mute starts its magic.

    @mswlogo By the way, my V1C app will never find an identical profile once V1 Driver is ever opened AND THEN FULLY CLOSED. The power to my V1 shuts off on display after 3 seconds the car is turned off. I listened to you because maybe there's some sort of power still flowing to the V1 unit even though it's not showing anything so I came back 6 hours hours with V1 Driver completely OFF, I opened up V1C app and it was the usual situation of not find a matching profile. This doesn't bother me at all though because I basically just use the V1C app to do the main configuration (especially Custom Sweeps), and then I never use it again until I need to change one of those main configurations. After that, I always have V1 Driver. It's all good though. Thank you.
     
  15. cihkal

    cihkal Level 3 SA Advanced User Acceptus Premium Member

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    @Michael Flare I'm glad you're dialing in the system to where you're really enjoying it. Hardware savvy certainly is nice, and being able to integrate with V1-Driver is sweet!

    There are so many configuration options with the V1 it's almost crazy, but fun at the same time. I would think about setting your automute on V1-Driver to 3-4sec. The only reason I say this is because let's say you're detecting a really, really weak K threat that's actually a cop. Well that time between beeps could be long enough that your V1 will be automuted/autosnoozed before it ever makes a beep with using 1sec. Now you should hear "K band autosnoozed" from V1-Driver and see the visual alert so you're still relatively safe to catch it before you'd be caught by the LEO. Just a comfort level thing, but the nice thing about the V1 is you can continue dialing it in how you want it.
     
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  16. mswlogo

    mswlogo Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Thanks for the follow up and digging.

    I assure you there is no code in V1Driver to write your V1 Profile.

    But I'm concerned that you still have V1C saying the Profile changed. You had correctly narrowed it down to probably being the Savvy Override, which V1Driver DOES change. I retested it as soon as I saw your original post and my V1C recalled the profile as matching (after power down). Before power down it was a mismatch.

    The override is actually stored (Transiently - i.e. Temporarily) in the Savvy Hardware itself. It is supposed to reset to the dial on (Savvy Hardware) power down (it does for me).

    It is important that is does reset on it's own. Because if you decide one day to not run V1Driver, forgot your phone, or someone else drives your car, you want the Hardware Savvy to operate correctly.

    Let me dig a little further.
    There might be another setting like Savvy override I'm not thinking of.
    [doublepost=1518284859,1518282711][/doublepost]
    @Michael Flare

    OK I just retested it again.

    I can repeat your same behavior without even using V1Driver.

    Using V1C App, Set the Savvy Override to some value (not what the wheel is set to) use a weird speed like 33 mph so it clearly stands out (I could have used 0, like V1Driver does)
    Close the V1C App.
    UNPLUG Savvy Hardware (that's what I did to speed things up, shutting off [my] car works too but takes longer).
    Wait a couple seconds and Plug it Back in. (watch out V1Driver doesn't start up and connect on you)
    Start V1C App -> "Profile Not Found" because Savvy Hardware reset it to No Override and 30 MPH (from the savvy wheel) and it's different than what I saved with V1C app (i.e. Override 33 mph).

    My current guess is that your ODB port is not fully powering down, and therefore not resetting to the savvy wheel.
    There were known issues on some cars of Savvy Hardware draining batteries down, that was address in later versions.
    Point is, some ODB ports don't power down. Even if V1 does power down, Savvy Hardware might detect car is off and it powers V1 down.
    The amount of Battery the Savvy Hardware itself uses is probably neglagible.

    Could you try the experiment again but this time try unplugging Savvy Hardware instead of Turning Your Car Off?
    Note: I did it while the car was running, do what you feel is safe.

    Also make sure the V1C app profile you are comparing with has Savvy Override OFF, because that's what it will power up at and that's what you want it to match.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  17. tphank1

    tphank1 ... Advanced User Acceptus Premium Member

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    ^^^^^ THIS IS AWESOME SUPPORT!!! We are lucky to have great developers HERE at RDF that stand behind their products!!!!
    Others have come and gone (just as quickly) trying to peddle their apps here, but The ones that are (were) part of our RDF community definitely ROCK!!!
     
  18. milkman

    milkman Premium Member Advanced User Acceptus Premium Member

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    x2
     
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  19. Michael Flare

    Michael Flare My Final Heaven General User

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    I did what you said yesterday. I changed my SAVVY override on V1C app to 33 MPH (override toggle is turned OFF anyways), I saved and pushed the settings to the V1. I closed the app completely and reopened it just to make sure it's properly correct, V1C app finds a matched profile which is proper. Then I closed the app completely. I opened up V1 Driver just for 2 seconds and closed it completely. Turned off the car and waited a few seconds until the V1 turned off. I turned on the car and the V1 turns on as usual. I opened up the V1C app and no matching profile just like before. I repeated this whole procedure a few times. I even removed the SAVVY unit from the OBD port while the car was on and off after I close the V1 Driver too; I basically did this whole procedure with a combination of different ways of powering on and off the V1. This ABSOLUTELY doesn't bother me at all because I never use V1C app during my drives anyways, it's ALWAYS AND ONLY V1 Driver connected for all my drives. I wanted to tell you this because you requested me to try it and these were the results. I can update you on my same experience and setup on my other car soon; I just finished installing the VR parts for that car EXCEPT the SAVVY (it's direct hard-wire setup).

    I have two questions though which don't really relate to this mess.
    1. What exactly does 'UserLockPend" mean on a pin (usually brown pin)? I'm confused on the word "Pend". This occurs when I swipe RIGHT with TWO fingers during a laser alert because I know for a fact it's coming from express highway license plate scanner setup (set up every 1/4 on my highway). The next day when I take the same route (at least 23 hours later), the hit count doesn't increase like all my other GPS pins that are used for GPS lockout/learning (which I don't swipe manually). Does V1 Driver still learn the pins that I swiped causing it to mark as "UserLockPend"?

    2. Is there a way to completely disable automatic recording (default last 2 minute histogram)?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  20. mswlogo

    mswlogo Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    I know it doesn't bother you but it concerns me that something isn't working as expected and may burn other users that it does concern.
    You should not have started V1Driver at ALL in your test. It would have programmed it back to 0 override and cause it to not match what you saved in V1C.
    But you said you did it several times (and I assume you didn't bring V1Driver up every time) and I appreciate you doing the test.

    UserLockPend is you Manually doing a Lock Out. It goes into a Pending State first so you have a chance to review it later. Manual locks are not Tracked or ever Unlearned. The Tracking is for it to Learn and Unlearn.
    I recommend not using manual locks. They are risky and don't unlearn and not necessary. After 24 hours UserLockPend will change to UserLock. If you change your mind you can Select Only UserLockPend and safely delete them.

    You can disable Instant Replay by setting it to 0 under Presentation Settings. This is explained on the Pop up Tip. Curious why you want it off? It uses a minuscule amount of resources (nothing is saved unless you save it). Your Screen being on and GPS are the primary consumers.
    [doublepost=1518644295,1518459943][/doublepost]Hey @Michael Flare I did a Video to show how Savvy hardware should reset to the Wheel settings (regardless of what is saved in your profile) after power loss.

    My guess is your Savvy port isn't powering down. Because I doubt yours has memory and mine doesn't. Video is a little rough and very boring ;)

     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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