Yet another out of Tune Stalker, this one on the low side

Discussion in 'Northeast' started by samq45, Oct 9, 2017.

  1. PointerCone

    PointerCone M3 Kng Advanced User Premium Member

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    Yes, to test this, shoot the stationary gun while moving at the sky or upwards in the WS wheres there no objects?? A moving unit will still get a speed since it always has a reference speed, BUT a stationary unit while moving will not.
    Well since I liked your post, "hypothetically", if you had not been running the EX, do
    @smokinu454 , OH I believe you, BUT have you ever gotten a ticket off those out of tune guns??
     
  2. samq45

    samq45 PSL +15 Advanced User

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    I know, just having a little fun with you, I thought you were having some fun with me as you normally do on this topic - I was not trying to get you going, all in jest. Plus I don't think you truly feel that way, you are just as inquisitive as the rest of us, if not more and would like to know if the radar is messed up or if it is our detectors (of if some agency is changing the frequency on purpose to defeat the detectors).

    Its difficult to say - but Yes - I probably would have received a ticket If I had not segmented the EX. I was in the fast lane at first and my picture did not include the speed on the EX for a reason . The Troopers like to run about 85mph in that section of the Thruway and catch you from behind, or come across the medium after you in the opposite lane. Usually 78 and higher gets you an invite to the roadside disco. The only other thing that would have saved me is that he was not running I/O or he could not make it across the medium without hitting something or getting stuck.
     
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  3. smokinu454

    smokinu454 county road cruisin Advanced User

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    I haven't gotten a ticket from it but that guy always has somebody pulled over when he's camped out shooting people coming by up behind him. Does he write them all tickets, I have no way of knowing but I'd wager that he's written more than one. He's stopped around my neck of the woods often enough that I run wide on the r3 and when it's segmented I will add in segment 1.
     
  4. radarrob

    radarrob Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    I’ll find out who (actually) Calibration is done by for NY. My source has told me as long as it passes the tuning fork test the unit is Legally good to use still. Now when I said what if this unit drifts out of Calibration and my detectors don’t detect and I get a ticket? My source said try and fight it,One he said they will try to fight with me for Obstruction of view Because the detector was below the rearview mirror. Two They saw that I had the detector there and pulled me over and for speeding. 3. I ask for the officers calibration paperwork that comes back legit accurate up-to-date on his part,4. I show the judge how a tuning fork works. 5. They will call manufacturer and do with all there power to prove me wrong.

    --- Post updated ---

    A unit that is stationary only will measure your vehicles ground speed not other cars going away or approaching.
     
  5. patscogs

    patscogs Flying Beginner User Premium Member

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    damn, well I had fun playing LEO on my way home that day... pretty sure the poor old guy driving his Cadillac next to me **** his pants when I tested it on his WS Escort... @The Only Sarge you been driving around NY recently?
     
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  6. samq45

    samq45 PSL +15 Advanced User

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    From what I was told by one of the lawyers, the calibrations (when completed) for municipalities are being performed by the Highway Safety Technology Unit - Part of the division of criminal justice services/office of public safety. Since it is a free service for all agencies in NY, no towns or counties are allowed to send the units elsewhere as they would have to spend money to do so. I don't know what the Troopers do, I assumed they used the same department.

    I have had an obstruction of view in NY, I am sort of a smartass when I get pulled over.

    You cannot bring up the detector argument in NY, as soon as you do it shows intent and you are toast....

    The best we can hope for is what happened in this case. http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2017/2017-ny-slip-op-27063.html
     
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  7. omgboost

    omgboost Left Lane Hog Moderator Premium Member

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    Was on the Belt Parkway yesterday and my HD+ was alerting to Ka band. Couldn't see the LEO and my Uniden was silent. A few moments later, my Uniden starts alerting to 35.08 and after a few blips, both the HD+ and Uniden went silent. Still no LEO to be found.
     
  8. PointerCone

    PointerCone M3 Kng Advanced User Premium Member

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    FYI, NY state is the exception, not the rule on radar gun certification. Having the trooper be the expert and testifying that the unit was tested before shift with tuning fork and that this test satisfied him that unit was working us contrary to mist Rules of Court or certification requirement. Putting the trooper in the position as the " expert" us another way of saying we trust our troopers and radar gun manufacturers indubitably. Florida requires the tuning fork test and much more for a conviction to be upheld. You need a thing fork test temporally promimate to the ticket. You need a visual estimation of speed . You need a certification of the gun by an FCC authorized individual . As I stated, NY state is the exception, not the rule and now I can clearly see why you guys want to run 4 and 6 there.

    What's fascinating is that in that opinion, the appellate court stated she was probably speeding . It's extremely rare, if unheard of, even with a civil spending infraction , for a court to make a factual finding ( "probably speeding") since that's always the province of the trial court, the finder of fact. The appellate courts are charged with only looking at the cold hard facts on the record.

    --- Post updated ---

    FYI, NY state is the exception, not the rule on radar gun certification. Having the trooper be the expert and testifying that the unit was tested before shift with tuning fork and that this test satisfied him that unit was working us contrary to mist Rules of Court or certification requirement. Putting the trooper in the position as the " expert" us another way of saying we trust our troopers and radar gun manufacturers indubitably. Florida requires the tuning fork test and much more for a conviction to be upheld. You need a thing fork test temporally promimate to the ticket. You need a visual estimation of speed . You need a certification of the gun by an FCC authorized individual . As I stated, NY state is the exception, not the rule and now I can clearly see why you guys want to run 4 and 6 there.

    What's fascinating is that in that opinion, the appellate court stated she was probably speeding . It's extremely rare, if unheard of, even with a civil spending infraction , for a court to make a factual finding ( "probably speeding") since that's always the province of the trial court, the finder of fact. The appellate courts are charged with only looking at the cold hard facts on the record.
     
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  9. samq45

    samq45 PSL +15 Advanced User

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    This is absolutely correct. One of the reasons I post in the NY section, these rules only apply to NYS.......... The rule of law, evidence and sometimes chain of custody that one would expect goes out the window here and its worse in the TVB areas where they are a court run mill just taking money from people. In NY its not entirely considered a civil infraction once you are 11 over, technically you can serve jail time at that amount over, but in reality no one really does, 31 over is more of a possibility, but still rare.

    Speeding Ticket Jail Time. In addition to the fine amounts the village or town judge may use his or her discretion to imprison anyone speeding 11-30 MPH over the speed limit for up to 15 days in jail (very rare) and 30 days in jail for 31 MPH and over (also not common).

    To boil it all down to one point, all the officer has to say is " I am trained in speed enforcement, and I saw this person speeding" - There is not much of a defense you can use there.

    We all know how unreliable an eye witness is - its been proven over and over again and any good defense attorney would attack the testimony of an eye witness, however in NY they are not allowed to do this if the officer testifies those two things.

    The town and cities get so much revenue from speed enforcement there is little incentive to change (as much as 40% of a towns budget), The system is stacked against the average person and most people in NY plead guilty - almost 80% - 90% in some jurisdictions. Plus if the trooper does not show, they usually just reschedule.

    Another issue we face here in the smaller town is that you may actually negotiate with the trooper that gave you the ticket in some cases the Justice of the peace is mostly part time. When you show up to some of them the only two people there are the Justice and the Trooper. So the trooper can give you the ticket and negotiate with you. No checks and balances in some places.

    In the towns I was close to growing up we had three justices. One was a former Trooper (Roberts in the 2nd article below), who always found you guilty - he actually sent people directly to jail for violations that did not have jail time as a punishment and was fired for it and the other two were my bus driver/farmer and a substitute teacher. About 40-50% of them are former law enforcement.

    Imagine trying to argue the radar certification, or any other technical items in one of those courts.

    The local justice was getting his car fixed last weekend and I gave him a ride home. He asked what the radar detector was. When I told him his exact response was - you know the Troopers have this sound coming from their units when it reads you exceeding a certain speed, they can adjust it (he made a motion like he was turning up the volume on an old radio) and there is no way your radar detector can help against that, they always get a proper reading.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/26/nyregion/26courts.html
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/25/nyregion/25courts.html
     
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  10. NPark

    NPark Rollin', windows down, music up Advanced User Premium Member

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    Wow. I read the first article. "No one seems to care." About that local farmer judge.

    I LAUGHED at this: "he seemed well intentioned." WELL INTENTIONED?? This is the law, with people's life.

    Same deal for me as an AT student. I may seem "well-intentioned" but you could kill someone if you malpractice. Seen deal here. Unbelievable...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. oldcelt

    oldcelt lurking in the tall grass Advanced User Premium Member

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    Actually beat a ticket in 1972 (excellent defense attorney............Richard Furlong, Fordham Law School)) issued on that basis. I was doing about 25 mph on the Long Island Expressway in the L (of 3) lane, and was actually passing most traffic, which was moving at 15 - 20. It was the middle of a hurricane (Agnes) and there was 5 - 6 inches of water on the road. Trooper gave me a ticket for doing 70 mph. I was like "WTF?" Trooper said "Shut up or I'll give you one for tailgating too". Possible factor was that I hadn't cut my hair or shaved my beard since my discharge the previous July, and most LEO's hated everyone with long hair at that point in time.

    Got to court with lawyer ($250 fee, big bucks in 1972), lawyer ripped trooper a new one. Case dismissed because trooper's training was not under the same conditions that the ticket was issued under.

    BONUS: Trooper was mega pi$$ed and slammed the (court) door when he stomped his way out of court. Judge had bailiff arrest him for contempt of court. Made the $250 thoroughly worth it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017 at 11:20 AM
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  12. PointerCone

    PointerCone M3 Kng Advanced User Premium Member

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    Ok ok ;) I give up, at least in NY anyway ;) However, let's be clear that this is not the rule in most states. Seems like in NY, the cards are stacked against the driver from the start. I mean, come on, even Joisey requires certification.
     
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  13. NPark

    NPark Rollin', windows down, music up Advanced User Premium Member

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    Every STATE police Radar gun I've seen is VERY tight to 34.7. I meant it. I've never even ran into a low 34.6, or. High 34.7. Never.


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  14. InsipidMonkey

    InsipidMonkey PSL +5 Intermediate User Premium Member

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  15. NPark

    NPark Rollin', windows down, music up Advanced User Premium Member

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    Ouch really. I would want to think its local. But down further sure I suppose. Up here, this part of 287, 80, 23 all tight.


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  16. Mild

    Mild Apex Hunter Beginner User

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    It's brutal here in NY.
     
  17. oldcelt

    oldcelt lurking in the tall grass Advanced User Premium Member

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    ALL the *out of tune* Stalkers I've experienced (one exception, Ulster Co Sheriff rear antenna, but could *possibly* have been an overdrive of my RL scenario) have been NYSP. However, NYSP, in my experience, are usually the most within/tightest to spec.
     
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  18. Up All Night

    Up All Night Learning to Fly Beginner User

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    Why ? To save 5 segment IF you have one of the ‘not hot’ rd you risk a performance hit.
    Assuming I assimilated the facts correctly.


    Posted from my iPhone using the RDF Mobile App!
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017 at 9:37 PM
  19. canettos

    canettos Surprise Advanced User Premium Member

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    In NY, you gotta do what you gotta do, still better than running wide.
     
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  20. Mild

    Mild Apex Hunter Beginner User

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    Running wide now. Think we'll benefit from 2/4/5/7/8? And be completely covered by it? The second question is the most important to me.