Remote RD Testing, Dec 2016: Stinger VIP, Net Radar, Radenso HD+, 9500ci, Plus, O

Dukes

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Great testing as always, I would've liked to see the "O" with its own CPU. I still believe the CPU is where the magic happens. I can loan out my O CPU if we want a retest!
That's been disproven. The "magic" is in the antenna. Plugging in a plus antenna into an O CPU didn't yield better results.
 

Vortex

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That's been disproven. The "magic" is in the antenna. Plugging in a plus antenna into an O CPU didn't yield better results.
Yeah Dukes and I tested out a bunch of different M3 CPU/head combinations last time.

A fun note, if you have an O CPU, you can plug in a head from an O, Plus, or 9500ci. If you have a Plus CPU, you can plug in a head from an O or a Plus. If you plug in a 9500ci head, it won't work but it will still error out if you unplug the head.
That was interesting to see which setups were compatible, how you could enable TSR on a Plus CPU but it won't do anything with an O head, what would lead to the performance differences, etc. It turned out to be the heads which were responsible for the performance gains which makes sense given that the LNA's are contained in the head behind the horn, not in the CPU.
 

rahul1023

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So that means theres something unique to the "O" radar horn, because you can basically take the horn from any M3 and interchange it between any other M3 remote or windshield. The reason why the 9500ci head doesn't work with the Plus is because the laser receiver diodes are all soldered onto the control board attached to the horn in a Plus antenna. With the 9500ci module, it's missing those crucial laser diodes which the plus expects to be there. To make it work, all you do is disable Laser alerts on the plus then connect the 9500ci antenna, it should work just fine if it doesn't check for the laser receive diodes in the radar antenna module.
 

Dukes

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So that means theres something unique to the "O" radar horn, because you can basically take the horn from any M3 and interchange it between any other M3 remote or windshield. The reason why the 9500ci head doesn't work with the Plus is because the laser receiver diodes are all soldered onto the control board attached to the horn in a Plus antenna. With the 9500ci module, it's missing those crucial laser diodes which the plus expects to be there. To make it work, all you do is disable Laser alerts on the plus then connect the 9500ci antenna, it should work just fine if it doesn't check for the laser receive diodes in the radar antenna module.
It's the wire bonded LNA and BS/RDR that gives it the extra boost. The 9500ci and O perform the same with the exception of manufacturing variances.
 

Vortex

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So I'm working on the video going over these results now and it kind of dawned on me that range isn't the big differentiator between these detectors. Sure there's some differences and that could make someone want to choose one detector over another, but I think it's everything combined as a complete package that really separates them.

ie. BSM filtering effectiveness, if it has lockouts, auto vs. manual lockouts, RDD immunity, antenna shape, how the controller/display fits into your car, arrow support, price, if you want integration with your laser jammers, etc. I think these are really the things that separate the detectors more than strictly focusing on range alone.
 

GoWFO

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I think these are really the things that separate the detectors more than strictly focusing on range alone.
I couldn't agree more, as I do research for my next CM purchase, these are the details I need to know.
 

te37

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Man these detectors all have amazing range, modern technology FTW. What really is going to make a detector stand out now is the fact that when the detector does go off if it is a real threat or not.
 

Vortex

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I just posted a video on YouTube going over the detectors, test course, results, and so forth. If you've already read over this thread, it's all the same stuff, but if you'd prefer the video format, that's now up too. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPEZgisYJJQ

I've also edited the OP to include the video as well.
 

jhwx

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Thanks for the great video! Some of my observations about the results:
  • For K band, factors external to the RDs' filters contribute to significant variability in their performance. In many cases, these external factors (wind, traffic, speed, functioning of the RD, noise, mounting of the RD, etc.) appear to be far more important in determining range than filters such as BSM and TSR.
    • This means that turning on the filters will not have a significant impact on range. Rather, factors outside of the user's control may have far greater impact.
    • This may or may not hold under a different set of conditions such as, for example, an open, straight track with unlimited visibility because we do not know the exact, external factors. Is most of variability due to the radar detector itself? Mounting location? The environment? Some other factor not mentioned here?
  • Based on these results and conditions, the only RD in which we have high confidence that its filters significantly affect range is the STiR plus.
 

Vortex

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Thanks for the great video! Some of my observations about the results:
  • For K band, factors external to the RDs' filters contribute to significant variability in their performance. In many cases, these external factors (wind, traffic, speed, functioning of the RD, noise, mounting of the RD, etc.) appear to be far more important in determining range than filters such as BSM and TSR.
    • This means that turning on the filters will not have a significant impact on range. Rather, factors outside of the user's control may have far greater impact.
    • This may or may not hold under a different set of conditions such as, for example, an open, straight track with unlimited visibility because we do not know the exact, external factors. Is most of variability due to the radar detector itself? Mounting location? The environment? Some other factor not mentioned here?
  • Based on these results and conditions, the only RD in which we have high confidence that its filters significantly affect range is the STiR plus.
I think this is a situation where it would be helpful to look at more than one test. For example, take a look at a previous test where I specifically tested out the K band filters for a variety of different detectors. It's pretty clear that the filtering options DO noticeably impact performance and range on K band.

https://www.rdforum.org/showthread.php?t=44374

This is where the course can be a big factor... In this course as we crested a hill, most every detector went off around that location. It's why the filters didn't seem to make all that much of an impact. If the signal goes from weak to strong relatively quickly, most every detector may alert in around the same location and that's what we saw.

That's why [MENTION=9768]Brainstorm69[/MENTION] always ends his test writeups talking about how this is simply one test and it's important to look at many tests to get an accurate representation of how everything works. No single test can give you all the facts.
 

Nine_C1

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Man these detectors all have amazing range, modern technology FTW.
They all have one thing in common......and it ain't "Digital Technology".

Low Noise Amps at the base of their antennas.:D

That was the breakthrough that was made over a decade ago but obscured by the overkill of Ka filtering that was applied to the M3s. And even the V1 (including some older hardare versions) has one but it's only used for X-Band. No wonder the V1 was always THE top dog on that band.

Looks like the Europeans and Asians have the secret ingredient now......not sure about the guys that brought that technology to the table.:p Actually (if I live long enough) I think I'll see the dual LNA V1 but the Escort (Cedar) M4 clones are surely going to see me to the grave (if they don't go first).:corsair:
 

ROLLTIDE

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Thanks for the testing ! I am so glad that I was one of the first to order the Radenso HD+
 

NPark

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Thanks for the tests! Really glad you brought up how there are other factors. Everyone wants "all out range." It's not just about that. BSM, lockouts, etc. are very important. Especially with k-band. If anyone benefits its newbies. You have to break it all down for them. You did a great job of talking about the factors, can't wait for the follow-up vid!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

pntblnk

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[MENTION=2404]Vortex[/MENTION] [MENTION=4479]Dukes[/MENTION] This was a fantastic piece of testing work and a great write up...we have come to expect no less and you deliver every time.

Any direct feedback from the manufacturers on your comments and the actions they are taking to mitigate? Looks like I will be going the remote mount due to the damn specialized IR blocking materials Mercedes uses. :mad: Key factors for me are going to be BSM filtering, ease of use (setup and regular interactions), range and a modern display.

As you say, raw performance is very good in all of the units tested. However this can come at the cost of day to day driveabilty based on the detailed write up and individual review videos on your channel. The components of a phenomenal remote mount are there in the mix....but somehow need to be blended into that one (or more) perfect unit(s).
 
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