TXCTG Waco Radar Detector Testing 10-25-2015

Discussion in 'Countermeasure Testing & Related Videos' started by Brainstorm69, Oct 26, 2015.

  1. Brainstorm69

    Brainstorm69 TXCTG Advanced User Premium Member

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    INTRO

    When I heard that Davek was getting a Max 360, I immediately decided I’d like to try testing it against the existing competition. So I asked him if he’d like to meet me halfway (I'm in Dallas, he's in Austin) in Waco, and do some testing of the 360 against some other detectors. I had recently gotten my two Magnums back from Belscort (one wirebonded LNA and one packaged LNA), and I wanted to test against my Redline and LRD950 also. Things started getting interesting when Jag42 purchased a Radenso Pro SE and said he’d like to participate. Unfortunately, the Texas weather intervened, and Jag42 and andesg were not able to make it because of flooding in San Antonio. But Davek and I decided to brave the weather, and made it through the rain to Waco Sunday morning about 11:00.

    We had a little lunch, and Davek drove me around in his car for a bit in the Waco traffic just to get a feel for how the Max 360 handled K-band falsing. Where we were had some nasty stationary falses by the highway, and we did catch a little falsing in the short trip, but after the initial stationary falses it was hard to tell whether new falses were stationary or BSM. We then headed for the course, and thankfully, the rain let up about the time we got there.

    THE CONTESTANTS

    Escort Max 360 (FW latest version) – Hwy, other settings unknown (Davek, if you can see how you have it set up and can let me know, I'll add it here).
    Escort Redline (F/W Version latest, build date 1912) – settings were Hwy, Ka segmented 2/5/8, RDR off, TSR on.
    Uniden LRD950 #1 (F/W Version 1.22, build date unknown) – Hwy, K filter was enabled.
    Beltronics STi Magnum #1 (F/W Version Lastest (BSRDR), new build date 4015) – Hwy, Ka segmented 2/5/8, RDR off, TSR on.
    Beltronics STi Magnum #2 (F/W Version Lastest (BSRDR), new build date 4215) – Hwy, Ka segmented 2/5/8, RDR off, TSR on.
    Escort Max2 (FW latest version)Hwy, other settings unknown (Davek, if you can see how you have it set up and can let me know, I'll add it here).
    Beltronics RX65 M4 (F/W Version 6.5, build date 1915) - Hwy, Ka USA, TSR on

    THE COURSE

    The course is a 3.15 mile straightaway down a rural highway just north of the Waco airport. Along with being long and straight, it was also pretty flat. So this was a test of flat-out, straight-line, on-axis testing.

    Here is a picture of the course. Note that we used two different points for the radar source when it turned out that Vortex’s Bee III (33.8) had more power than we were expecting.

    Waco Pioneer Pkwy Radar Course 10-25-2015.

    THE RESULTS: Pictures both from the old fashioned manual way, and the new-fangled, GPS, Google Earth way.

    Ka 34.7

    Waco Ka 34.7 Results 10-25-2015.
    Waco Testing Ka band 34.7.


    Ka 33.8
    Waco Ka 33.8 Results 10-25-2015.
    Waco Ka 33 closeup labelled .


    K-band

    Waco K-band Results 10-25-2015.
    K band Testing Waco .


    THE VIDEOS: To be added (sorry still working on them, but in the meantime, here are screenshots of the first alert by each detector, in rank order) - [EDIT 10/28: The 34.7 videos are now posted] [EDIT 10/29: The K-band videos are now posted] [EDIT 10/30: The Ka 33.8 videos are now posted. Note that I truncated these videos as it seemed like a waste to do 3 miles of video for each detector listening to the alert. Plus, that allowed me to get them doone and up faster.]


    Ka 34.7

    [video=youtube;AAexpSE6C7k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAexpSE6C7k[/video]

    [video=youtube;aWg0PKSlnjY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWg0PKSlnjY[/video]

    [video=youtube;nSc74UkiW90]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSc74UkiW90[/video]

    [video=youtube;N55TbNiWTFw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N55TbNiWTFw[/video]

    [video=youtube;oEdfvLnTnRM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEdfvLnTnRM[/video]

    [video=youtube;Cqp5HAakyUw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqp5HAakyUw[/video]

    [video=youtube;1_MS44F0DNY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_MS44F0DNY[/video]



    Ka 33.8

    [video=youtube;GnS0bZcdQbY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnS0bZcdQbY[/video]

    [video=youtube;XDrbiOSSGvg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDrbiOSSGvg[/video]

    [video=youtube;r8eRQgZezB8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8eRQgZezB8[/video]

    [video=youtube;xvLIoM7zaVI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvLIoM7zaVI[/video]

    [video=youtube;LbOsB05xl0w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbOsB05xl0w[/video]

    [video=youtube;CdKVz9uKJ9Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdKVz9uKJ9Q[/video]

    [video=youtube;SaKoqGsg-Us]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaKoqGsg-Us[/video]



    K-band

    [video=youtube;ZM64ItzMOV8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM64ItzMOV8[/video]

    [video=youtube;6ca5Rxhq4l0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ca5Rxhq4l0[/video]

    [video=youtube;ArIFCxMBACA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArIFCxMBACA[/video]

    [video=youtube;baVDkxfzEIQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baVDkxfzEIQ[/video]

    [video=youtube;JNMHfE4YuaA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNMHfE4YuaA[/video]

    [video=youtube;BaW3Xnpmrwo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaW3Xnpmrwo[/video]

    [video=youtube;E6S3A6Cvp0s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6S3A6Cvp0s[/video]


    CONCLUSIONS


    Ka 34.7 Testing:

    LRD950 (2.2 miles) – a surprise winner in Ka 34.7, besting the Redline for the first time ever in my testing of Ka 34.7. It caught a whiff of Ka at 2.2, and then was silent for quite awhile before picking it back up at about 1.4 miles. But this was not a fluke. I had been down here doing my own separate recon work and testing a week ago. The same thing happened then. The LRD950 beat the Redline on this course that time also. The same way, With an early warning whiff.

    Redline (1.5 miles) – definitely still a star at 34.7, but dethroned as the king, at least for this test. Second longest detection, and one thing about the Redline. One it gets a signal, it doesn’t usually let it go if it is C/O. It didn’t this time either.

    Magnum #1 Wirebonded (1.3 miles) – a solid showing by my “new” old wirebonded LNA Magnum. But not up to Redline standards. So far it hasn’t beaten the Redline in any test I’ve thrown at it. Usually just a step slow.

    Magnum #2 Packaged (1.0 mile) – so far I’m disappointed with the 34.7 performance of this “new” new Magnum. I bought a brand new old stock Driver with the packaged LNA and sent it in for upgrading. It had performed pretty well on 34.7 previously. Not up to BSRDR standards, but I had higher hopes for it after BSRDR fw was added. My paperwork from Belscort said that the tech adjusted the Ka mixer driver. Don’t know if that is what has caused this (what I consider to be) poor performance on 34.7.

    Max2 (1.0 mile) – I had never been exposed to a Max2 before, so I wasn’t sure what to expect. I figured it would probably perform better than a standard M4, and in that regard, it didn’t disappoint, beating the RX-65 M4 in the mix by 0.3 mile. It also managed to tie the packaged LNA Magnum. Given how much folks malign it, I didn’t think it did too bad.

    Max360 (0.9) – Not that I expected miracles out of the Max 360, but this was a bit of a disappointment. I know I was hoping (and I’m sure other were, too) that it would do better. That it was more than just a Max2 with arrows. But so far, it’s not quite even that on 34.7. I’ll have to look again at the video, but I’m pretty sure it did 0.7 miles facing backwards with it rear horn in a RR moment with Davek holding in his hand. Not too bad, really. But I expected more from the front horn. And the arrows do lag. It took about .1 mile for them to turn to the sides after passing the radar source, and then they quickly turned to the back after that.

    RX-65 M4 (0.7 miles) – I brought the good old RX-65 with me as the low end for comparison purposes. And it did just that. Brought up the rear. But I lived for 4 years with nothing but an M4, and I never got a ticket. So in my mind, it’s still not that bad a detector. It just doesn’t match up with the best of the best, and its being surpassed by some of the new lower priced detectors like the LRD850.

    Ka 33.8 Testing:

    I have to say something right away about the 33.8 results. They really tell us very little on this course. @Vortex’s Bee III packs quite a punch, and it overpowered this 3.15 mile course with the strength of its signal. We started on the first radar source point, and quickly realized we were going to need a longer course! So Dave drove back to the far end of the course and set up shop, hoping that would be long enough. It wasn’t.

    All the detectors basically alerted at about 3.0 miles, right after I turned the bend on the start of the course and came on axis. Which was really too bad, because I was looking forward to testing the units on 33.8. Especially the Uniden, since I have seen other tests indicating 33.8 may be a potential weakness for this stellar 34.7 performer. As it was, the Uniden did actually come in last of all the detectors, but what does 60 feet mean when you’re talking about 3 miles in detection? Not much, really.

    If we had more time, we could have re-run the tests turning the radar off-axis a bit, but this was the last test we ran, and we ran out of time (and a guy who said he farmed the land we were on started getting curious about what Davek was doing). Darn land-owners, always sticking their nose into RD Forum business! lol

    K Band Testing

    Redline (1.9 miles) – The Redline is still very hot on K, and just managed to sneak past the LRD950. So it got partial revenge for the trouncing it took on 34.7.

    LRD950 #1 (also 1.9 miles) – This particular unit is not only hot on 34.7, but has proven to be pretty good on K-band also. Was barely beaten by the Redline, but still did quite well.

    Magnum #2 Packaged (1.6 miles) – The packaged LNA Magnum managed to pull one of against its big brother, the wirebonded LNA, beating it by .1 mile. Pretty solid showing here, although still not up to Redline levels.

    Magnum #1 Wirebonded (1.5 miles) – Big brother got a small taste of comeuppance from its little brother, but it that such a bad thing, when K-band sensitivity can be a curse as well as a blessing, these days.

    Max 360 (0.9 mile) – There was a pretty significant drop off from the Magnums down to the Max 360. But again, unless you have K-band actively being used in your area, is this such a bad thing? It was still 0.9 mile. That should be plenty for most people to haul it down to avoid a ticket. But it is still disappointing that the Max 360 isn’t doing better. Three years in the making, and Escort can’t improve the performance by any appreciable amount over the Max2? And it can’t even beat the Rx-65 M4?

    RX-65 M4 (0.9 mile) – Well, Momma M4 would be proud. Here’s her runt of the litter, the M4, a platform that is close to 10 years old, managing to tie the latest and greatest offering from Escort. Way to go M4!

    Max2 (0.8 miles) – Can’t say much except that we should expect the digital M4 (that is one gen out from the latest and greatest) to beat the analog M4, but it doesn’t always happen that way.

    Final Thoughts
    First, I had a lot of fun testing these radar detectors out and meeting @Davek in person! Thanks for all the help, man! Second, I want to thank @Vortex for loaning us his Bee III. That man is always helping the community some way! Third, this is just one test, with only one run per detector per course. So don’t necessarily take these results as gospel. As Vortex is fond of saying, you need to look at various tests, by various people, at various times, to try to get to a complete picture of a detector. This is just one test. Hopefully there will be many. But we need other tests, on other courses, and of other detection abilities other than just flat out, straight line, on-axis performance. We did not have time to try any off-axis testing, or any I/O testing, or any QT testing. There are plenty of other things left to be tested.

    It was really exciting to be a part of the founding of the TXCTG, and I look forward to more TXCTG testing with more forum members in the future. It was also exciting to get some of the first formal Max 360 testing results in, and to share them with the community. And I’m disappointed we didn’t have the new Radenso Pro SE in the mix. Well, maybe next weekend! :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  2. protias

    protias Train Horn Advertiser Advanced User Premium Member

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    I wish I could find a long stretch of road to test on here. I think I know of one, but not sure how well it would work out since it is a 4 lane divided highway.
     
  3. Jag42

    Jag42 TXCTG Advanced User Premium Member

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    Thanks for the time you guys spent. I'm up for this weekend to meet for a RPSE shoot out. I was really bummed out this past weekend.
     
  4. speedski

    speedski Premium Member Beginner User Premium Member

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    Where did the lrd950 alert after the whiff. Was it before or after the redline?
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
  5. amendolaro

    amendolaro PSL +15 Advanced User

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    So the lrd950 is on par with the redline and magnum ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. Vortex

    Vortex Making Videos Administrator Premium Member

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    Great work with the test!

    Very impressive showing with the Uniden, especially if that was repeated.

    No big surprise really about the 360. It'd be nice for more to have the ultimate super detector with range, but oh well.

    Thanks for getting some test results out with this new detector! :thumbsup:
     
  7. cihkal

    cihkal Level 3 SA Advanced User Premium Member

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    Did you have TSR on with the 360? Thanks for the testing, awesome stuff!

    Sent via my moto /g/ machine
     
  8. speedski

    speedski Premium Member Beginner User Premium Member

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    Ignored my previous post. 1.3 miles is really close to the Redline for a constant pick up. Good job Uniden. Thanks for the testing guys!
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
  9. Brainstorm69

    Brainstorm69 TXCTG Advanced User Premium Member

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    I only had to go 130 miles for it. ;) The divided highway could work if you have someone in another car that can park in a parking lot of something along the highway with a clear view down the road.

    Yeah, really sorry you and andreasg couldn't make it. This weekend is still a possiblity.

    It alerted at what looks to be a few hundred feet past where the Redline picked it up. Would have been #2 without the momentary alert at 2.2. But like I said, the very same thing happened the weekend before. So I don't think it was a fluke.

    01 Ka 34.7 LRD950 (2nd) Waco 10-25-2015.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
  10. Brainstorm69

    Brainstorm69 TXCTG Advanced User Premium Member

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    Thanks! And thanks agains for the lone of the Bee III. If we do this again next weeken, we will need to point it of-axis to keep the length down.

    ---------- Post added at 10:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 PM ----------

    On this test it was.

    ---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 PM ----------

    [MENTION=9661]Davek[/MENTION] will have to answer that one. I'm not sure. Should have checked ahead of time, but one of those details that sometimes gets overlooked as you're trying to get it all done. But Davek should be able to tell us. I doubt he's changed anything since then (other than turning the overspeed warning off).
     
  11. rayneman

    rayneman PSL +5 Intermediate User

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    Given the delay in the Max360s warning tone vs. arrows/frequency that seems to be an issue so far, were the detection distances judged at tone or when the arrows/frequency appeared on the display? I'm not even sure if that would make that much of a difference.

    Thanks!
     
  12. natedog7700

    natedog7700 Learning to Fly Beginner User

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    Why does the Max 360 suck so bad? I mean honestly, Its terrible compared to other detectors out there in the same price range. Do people over at Escort smoke weed and munch on Mac Dons all day? This is pathetic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
  13. cihkal

    cihkal Level 3 SA Advanced User Premium Member

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    I don't know man, buts it's just one test round so far. Why do you ask such hard questions?

    Have a toke, some MickeyD's, and hang out for a while and you just might get your answer. Sucking is a strong word

    Sent via my moto /g/ machine
     
  14. Brainstorm69

    Brainstorm69 TXCTG Advanced User Premium Member

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    Actually, I looked back and it's probably more like a bit over 1.4 miles. I'm going to fix that in the original post.

    ---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 PM ----------

    Based on first alert tone.
     
  15. Jag42

    Jag42 TXCTG Advanced User Premium Member

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    For $650 and all the marketing hype and all the yapping about the 360 being the best performing detector,I would be pissed ! Escort360 will be exposed ! This was not even a 9 mile SML course and the 360 performed not so good on the most popular 34.7.
     
  16. natedog7700

    natedog7700 Learning to Fly Beginner User

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    If it was $300 I wouldn't be complaining. For the money I paid, its sub par and that's being nice. Larry said in his own words, it would be the longest range/most sensitive detector yet. But what do we get? A brick that takes up half my windshield, sloppy arrows that barley do their job (almost defeat the point), software bugs all over the place, and a huge LIE to everyone who was involved with their marketing BS. Escort's business ethic is one of the worst I've seen from a corporation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
  17. cihkal

    cihkal Level 3 SA Advanced User Premium Member

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    Hey, I don't blame you if you're feeling that way. My focus has been figuring this thing out. Haven't had much range testing opportunities, but one thing Escort didn't completely lie about is the CAS filter. Held off a new Merc sedan without TSR on. I put up the really bad video highlighting the action. The filtering scheme seems to be on par with the V1's so far.

    Let's not blame Larry, he has a job to keep and can't just leave at the snap of a finger.


    Sent via my moto /g/ machine
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
  18. Frodooftheshire

    Frodooftheshire Learning to Fly Beginner User

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    Great work. How many runs were done for each band? I feel like you probably need at least 3 runs and use an average to get accurate numbers. Out of all the tests I've seen over the years a detector will sometimes have a run with weird abysmal results...and then have two other much better runs. Taking the average would help. While it's really not great...getting within a 1/10th of a mile of a packaged LNA magnum isn't too shabby
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
  19. natedog7700

    natedog7700 Learning to Fly Beginner User

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    Nothing to do with you my bad lol just expressing my thoughts to the community.
     
  20. fishing66

    fishing66 PSL +15 Advanced User

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    Great work guys. I'm looking forward to seeing a a showdown between the Max 360 and a V1 with TMF2.