Correct. There's 4 main filtering knobs but currently it's a black box what they do, and not very easy to experimentally verify though:Hmm that's strange...so is the filtering just always enabled?
I mean, it's still feasible depending on how long the IO shot was. Sometimes even when I IO traffic with radar, I end up shooting for longer than a second. We call it sloppy IO but it can be helpful, either because you're lazy and not paying attention to the radar display or you wanted to be extra sure you clocked the right guy.Has anyone else seen RR's new video showing the Max getting an I/O K save? The Max is in auto mode. Don't know about TSR.. And his stir plus is in autoscan mode and doesn't alert until it's I/Onwed by the LEO. I'm not saying this is something to lean on, but it's interesting seeing the max doing so much better in auto mode than a plus...
Also RR is seen in the mirror puffing an e-cig, which made me laugh..
I always notice different alert lengths when I run into I/O shots. Most times its longer than the Max's latch time. Which means it wasn't a quick shot. In the real world as a Leo it would take a lot of skill to keep the shot under a second each time. Especially when driving and focusing on staying in one lane, pressing the tx button and then reading the display and pressing the button again.I mean, it's still feasible depending on how long the IO shot was. Sometimes even when I IO traffic with radar, I end up shooting for longer than a second. We call it sloppy IO but it can be helpful, either because you're lazy and not paying attention to the radar display or you wanted to be extra sure you clocked the right guy.
And there's no telling where/how the stir+ is mounted. I buy that the Max is higher... but if Max was TSR Off and + was TSR on and stuck behind a bumper on its side and has the Max polluting it... all that video is good for is to say "YMMV". Which we already knew.Has anyone else seen RR's new video showing the Max getting an I/O K save? The Max is in auto mode. Don't know about TSR.. And his stir plus is in autoscan mode and doesn't alert until it's I/Onwed by the LEO. I'm not saying this is something to lean on, but it's interesting seeing the max doing so much better in auto mode than a plus...
Also RR is seen in the mirror puffing an e-cig, which made me laugh..
Meh who knows, RR probably got the leo to sit there then turned off K on the stir + until he was in the kill zoneAnd there's no telling where/how the stir+ is mounted. I buy that the Max is higher... but if Max was TSR Off and + was TSR on and stuck behind a bumper on its side and has the Max polluting it... all that video is good for is to say "YMMV". Which we already knew.
But the e-cig made it all worth watching!
Yeah, no kidding. I've been trying to say that for a long time, but there are (were) a few very vocal Whistler fans here who wouldn't have it.It's easy to see why VG thinks the Whistler has superior K-band false rejection. Whereas the reality is, Whistlers are just flat out terrible on K-band......actually dangerously so with any kind of filtering enabled.
Looks like Whistler does a fantastic job of screening out real radar as well.
With all that experience you'd think it would be easy to differentiate good filtering from just plain old lousy performance. Thanks for putting yet another myth to bed Vortex.
Agreed on all points.Yeah, no kidding. I've been trying to say that for a long time, but there are (were) a few very vocal Whistler fans here who wouldn't have it.
There was a day when Whistlers were an acceptable choice if you were looking for something in a Cobra price range and absolutely could not afford any M4's or above. But... that's not how things are today. There's solid newcomers (like the Uniden and Radenso) that fit at range-topping Whistler prices, offer similar sets of features, and actual solid radar performance. And for the lower end stuff, it's borderline horrifying when Cobras are now beating the Whistler in performance.
It's time for the community to move on and pick a different favorite budget brand. All of this is not to mention recently there's been many affordable M4 options too. As much as we aren't thrilled by M4's, they are decent for the budget-minded -- way more so than these Whistler units.
Blind spot falses suck and sometimes we basically HAVE to run it nowadays or else the detectors may become basically useless. It's all well and good to test radar detectors with the filters turned off to see how they fare in terms of maximum sensitivity, but how much of a performance drop do we see with the filters turned on?
I did some testing recently with a bunch of different detectors and radar gun. The results are posted up here. In that test I also tested all the detectors with the K band filters turned on and turned off. For some of the detectors which we run often like the Redline, Max2, and V1, I also tested various combinations of filter settings to see how much the individual settings impact performance.
Let's take a look first at a comparison between the detectors with full sensitivity and then the most popular K band filtering settings enabled. The top of the course shows full sensitivity. The bottom shows with the filters enabled.
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As you can see, the performance and range of every radar detector drops once the filters are enabled, some moreso than others.
Here's how each detector was configured for the filtered settings:
Redline: Auto, TSR On
V1: TMF2 On
Max2: Auto, TSR On
Passport: Auto, TSR On
RX65 M4: AutoScan, TSR On
Uniden LRD950 1.35: K Filter On
Whistler CR85: City, TSFR On (always XK Filter 1)
K40 RLS2: K band filter is always on, there's no options or way to turn it on or off
Cobra SPX 7800BT: CityXK
Radenso Pro: Highway (not City), TS Rej On
Unfiltered, the Passport, Redline, Uniden, V1, Max2, and RX65 M4 all did very well on this course. The Cobra, Radenso Pro, and K40 were all clustered around that gap where we have line of sight to the radar car just under a quarter of a mile away.
With the filters turned on, most of the detectors dropped down to the gap. The Radenso Pro and Whistler failed to alert in that gap with line of sight. Bad news
Because the K40 doesn't technically have the ability to run without K band filters, I didn't include it in the unfiltered section up top. It also came in towards the end of the pack.
The Cobra did surprisingly well on K band when unfiltered. Even though it was in the lower pack, it actually alerted a little before direct line of sight. It also managed to alert in line of sight when the filtering option was enabled.
The Whistler did very poorly, coming in last place both filtered and unfiltered.
The Radenso Pro also didn't do very hot. It came in towards the end, only besting the Whistler. While the unit is a standout performer on Ka band, its K band sensitivity is very much lacking. Unlike the other units where I ran City/TSR on, with this detector I ran Highway/TSR on. I did this because its City mode apparently lets you do low speed muting (which I don't need for this test) and will allow you to progressively reduce K band sensitivity. Given how poorly it did with Highway/TSR on, I didn't feel that crippling K band performance was realistically worth testing. Woulda been helpful to know purely for testing/educational purposes, but there was already a lot to get through and I decided to cut that. It needs every ounce of K band sensitivity it can get.
The Uniden did spectacular. It gave full performance even with the K Filter turned on. I was very surprised by this and even went back to confirm that the filter was turned on. It was. After the test, I've got a bunch of ideas in my head for why those results may or may not be valid. For example, does the unit need to be power cycled for the filter to take effect, even though every other feature takes effect instantly? Was it a freak one off detection? Does the K band filter even do anything? I dunno... lots of different possibilities that in retrospect, I'd like to see explored further. (Armchair quarterbacking my own test, I wish I went back and did another pass. That said, who's to say some of the other detectors may have also done differently on another pass for one reason or another? Where do we draw the line? Unfortunately due to issues of practicality and time, I do have to cut certain things.) Either way, great showing and definitely cool stuff coming from that Uniden. I'd like to test this out again sometime and see if these results are repeatable. It'd be cool to have others try this test out too.
The M4's actually did quite well when filtered, beating out many other detectors. The Passport actually beat out the Redline in both setups. Great showing there.
The Redline did very well with K band unfiltered, only getting bested by the Passport. It ran midpack with Auto and TSR on, so that does knock it down from its lead on this course when the filters are activated. One note is that I got stuck behind a bicyclist for a bit and had to go around when doing the Auto/TSR on run, right around when the detector alerted, and slowing down a bit may have messed with the results by giving TSR more time to alert, similar to a stew test. It still didn't come out near the pack though, even with this potential advantage.
The Max2 came in towards the bottom of the pack. I suspect this is because its TSR delay is so long that it just takes longer for the detector to go off. It matched or lagged behind the M4's. It tended to perform up in the higher realm of detectors, but towards the end of the pack.
The V1 was a solid performer. Up in the higher realm of detectors too. Not the pack leader, but also not the caboose.
Now let's look at how the different detectors fare when we tweak the K band filtering options a little bit and see if we can eek out a little more performance.
View attachment 34164
Highway and TSR off gives the best performance. Auto and TSR on gives the worst. Makes sense. Now flipping between with just one or the other, it looks like in this course, Auto Mode has more of an impact in performance than TSR. Thus if we're out away from cities and want to protect against blind spot falses, Highway/TSR on may be a compromise we could make to give us better performance than Auto/TSR on.
View attachment 34165
The Max2 shows us basically the same thing that the Redline showed us: On this course and on these runs, Auto Mode had more of a detrimental impact than TSR.
Auto mode reduces sensitivity. TSR requires a longer duration signal to be present for the alert to happen. It's possible that on a different course, things may switch. Again, this is only testing on this course.
View attachment 34166
For the V1, I tested with TMF2 off, but K POP on or off. K POP speeds up K band reaction time, but it didn't seem to help with range. In fact, it actually did better with K POP off which I suspect is more due to variability between runs than it is any changes to detector sensitivity/reactivity. I also did not power cycle the unit when switching K POP on or off. I remember seeing that it was sometimes necessary, sometimes not. I did, however power cycle the unit once I enabled TMF2, after I remembered about all this. I wish I power cycled it when switching from K POP off to on. Sorry about that.
View attachment 34167
Cobra has different filtering modes, Highway, CityXK, and CityMax. CityMax is its most aggressive filtering option, even filtering Ka band and cutting sensitivity there. For that reason I'd never run this, but I wanted to test it nonetheless. It didn't seem to do much beyond CityXK on K band. I didn't test it on Ka band.
View attachment 34168
With the Whistler, City1 and City2 will make the detector beep quickly then go quiet, helping mute false alarms. It doesn't have any impact on K band sensitivity. City1 reduces X band sensitivity, City2 disables X band detection altogether. This does seem to be reflected in my test. It's TSFR that has a huge impact on the results. In this particular test, TSFR drops the CR85's detection range from already subpar relative to other detectors to basically unusable performance. It would provide only a few seconds of warning before the kill zone. Again, things vary from one location to another thanks to the terrain, but on this course, that performance is unacceptable and could lead to getting owned by C/O.
So yeah, definitely interesting to see how these detectors change in practice. With the possible exception of the Uniden, TMF/TSR/TSFR can all definitely reduce your detection range in practice in addition to the obvious trade-offs you get with detecting brief signals in the first place.
|32.21% Chance of Survival||Valentine One with TMF2 ON|