Veil Guy's V1C FAILs to alert at OR's stew test

Discussion in 'Valentine One' started by Veil Guy, Sep 30, 2014.

  1. Veil Guy

    Veil Guy PSL +15 Advanced User

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    After a number of delays, including one from CALDOT (although they fixed their speed sign in a very timely manner, courtesy of OR's request!), OR has shared with me that the V1C of mine with those sweeps of WS/Vortex still did not alert.

    Although I was hoping that my particular V1 (.894) with those sweeps would have shown improvement in that particular environment, I guess it does go to show you that software can only take you so far. I have to say after looking at OR's video of the test and his description to me of his particular setup, that his test does indeed seem to be an exceptional one for testing fringe detections of 34.7 Ka (as you guys who are closest to this already know). I would love to see other bands be able to be tested there as well it would be most interesting to see the results for them as well.

    A video will be forthcoming from OR.

    I expect to incorporate the results of this test (now that I know specifically how the unit I have been driving with for my extended V1 review) into my conclusion in some fashion.

    Thank you OR for investing your time and effort into testing my particular V1 and for discovering this testing venue.

    I think another take away for me from this is that quickness and reduced filtering and even exotic signal processing, obviously can only get you so far.

    I have been driving with the new Passport segmented and candidly I am not seeing dramatic improvements in detection to Ka, so far. In fact it appears that my older 8500 X50 black is outperforming it (and the Max as well!)

    I know I have read this here before (by Nine), but clearly it does start (and end) with the receiver and no software tricks after the fact can ultimately overcome that completely.

    To be clear, the V1C is still ultimately my preferred choice, at least at this point, but the detection performance of the RL (on 34.7) as evidenced in OR's test, can not be denied.

    VG

    The videos:

    http://youtu.be/EY2kWbmvxxA

    http://youtu.be/fE35BFR9QVs
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2014
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  2. KASHER1979

    KASHER1979 Keeping RDF Secure Administrator Security Detachment Premium Member

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    My V1 resides in my closet. I am sold on the Beltroincs STIR, I really REALLY hope Beltronics will deliver something with the same performance as this unit or better. I have never experienced anything like it.
     
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  3. GTO_04

    GTO_04 Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    I know where you're coming from. I own both and the Redline is clearly superior in range. But.........the arrows ARE a big deal, so I understand your preference for the V1.

    GTO_04
     
  4. Veil Guy

    Veil Guy PSL +15 Advanced User

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    The STiR is the high water mark in this industry for sure. I expect to keep that puppy on my vehicle forever and while it can't detect a lot of new lasers today, supplementing it with a V1 and an active, with Veil of course is the way I roll.

    My preference for the V1 has a lot more to do with other things than just arrows.

    VG

    ---------- Post added at 11:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 AM ----------

    I would love for the next really big thing to come from Bel sans marketing BS.

    VG
     
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  5. BrownOut

    BrownOut Mount it High Intermediate User

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    VG you call it straight I appreciate your efforts in advancing this field as the true enthusiast that you are.
     
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  6. Benji

    Benji Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Just make sure G5 is up to the task! And hurry up and release it :D
     
  7. jdong

    jdong Premium Member Advanced User Premium Member

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    Thanks, VG, for agreeing to do the test. It's perfectly fine to admit you like and prefer a detector that's not the king of detection range. The important thing is having the open mind and understanding the strengths and weaknesses of your setup.

    Like right now my day to day detector is still generally the Max / Max2 because it's the right combinations of features and quietness for my local threats. I know what I'll use on a highway trip.

    I'm strongly considering sending my V1 back for TMF2 both so that I can use it more locally, and for the community since I have two leaky Audi's that are good for testing the effectiveness of TMF.
     
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  8. Vortex

    Vortex Making Videos Administrator Premium Member

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    Thanks for sharing the results. This is a great test for measuring ultimate range. Did OR test your sweeps as well?
     
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  9. Veil Guy

    Veil Guy PSL +15 Advanced User

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    He did indeed. They were baked in. The sweeps included my base and then Wind's and your slight mods.

    VG
     
  10. Vortex

    Vortex Making Videos Administrator Premium Member

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    Ah gotcha. That's pretty much what I anticipated. The simple sweeps I use are what we used in previous testing here and there has yet to be a V1 here that alerts no matter the settings or sweeps.

    Even if the V1 is not the king in range, its range is still excellent and everything else it adds, in my mind, makes it a fantastic package that more than makes up for any deficiencies in range. For those times when range is the most important factor above all else, there's simply no substitute for an M3.

    That said, I'm really curious how the Stinger VIP fares here.

    A big thank you to OR and VG for doing this test!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
  11. Veil Guy

    Veil Guy PSL +15 Advanced User

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    Apparently true on 34.7 (and then perhaps by extension on 35.5). 33.8, x, and k I'm not so sure at this point.

    In my driving experiences I no longer see crushing differences in alerting performance. But I am loathe to extrapolate.

    Granted, everyone's experiences are going to be different given their terrain and freqs they see.

    I would really be interested in seeing OR's course to be set up for all freqs.

    I am going to try to arrange for some chamber testing and then we should be able to clearly see in black and white the extent of any differences. I would like to see the quantitative representation of what OR's test is demonstrating in the field.

    I also found my RL that I had misplaced. I want to send that one out so I can see how that unit handles this test, if it would alert.


    VG
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
  12. KASHER1979

    KASHER1979 Keeping RDF Secure Administrator Security Detachment Premium Member

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    It wouldn't take much really. Just give us the STIR-O back with some bells and whistles. ;-)

    ---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 PM ----------

    Not that the STIR plus isn;t good because it is an awesome detector. It just lacks the totally mind blowing wow factor that the O has.
     
  13. PointerCone

    PointerCone M3 Kng Advanced User Premium Member

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    Yes, NINE put it best when he stated many moons ago that the hardware in the M3 is superior to anything currently OUT THERE. "If you want to catch more rain, get a better bucket." (and that bucket my friends is the superior M3 horn.........)

    Thanks for your candor Bob!!! Now, can you please revise your BLOG to reflect these recent findings on the King of Kings and post a link to the video on there.
     
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  14. Vortex

    Vortex Making Videos Administrator Premium Member

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    You know, it would be simple enough to set up a radar source in a vehicle near the speed sign and use this location to test different frequencies as well. Various radar guns may have different output powers so it may not necessarily be all about if a RD is better or worse at detecting certain frequencies, but it'd definitely be worth testing!

    Considering previous test results with every Redline ever tested alerting here, I'd say chances are high that yours will as well. ;)

    https://www.rdforum.org/showthread.php?t=31412
     
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  15. Dukes

    Dukes Security Detachment Security Detachment Moderator Premium Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to do this test!!!

    I'm curious to see how a STiR plus would fair in your stew test....unless I missed it and it was already done.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
  16. Veil Guy

    Veil Guy PSL +15 Advanced User

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    PC, I intentionally withheld my final part (ie; conclusion) of this review with the hopes that OR's results would come back and I am going to incorporate the findings in my summary now that my specific unit was tested.

    However, I am do not want to restart this merry-go-round. I stand by my opinion. The king of kings comment goes to the driving experience, not detection range whether that be of 34.7 or any other band. In fact what started this whole mess was the same sentiment. I've said this many times now, the using the words the "the RL is King" is a very broad accolade describing a relatively narrow set of performance advantages of the RL over the V1. King of detection range is better than merely "king." King of detection range on 34.7 is even better than that. King of off-axis, is also very apt. Again, specifics.

    I've put forth my case for this claim very clearly in part V and I believe those observations and assertions are spot on, subtle as they may be.

    http://veilguy.blogspot.com/2014/09/review-valentine-one-v1connection-for.html

    But, I also have come to fully appreciate why you guys have revered OR's test so much (mostly in my absence over the years), but I would also say since that is the primary acid test leading to such a conclusion and I accept this, I would also want to see the other bands tested in the same venue. 34.7 (and 35.5) while very important bands to detect, to be sure, are just two of the overall bands. K and X and 33.8 are more important to me as I see them more and 34.7 is right up there too as, of course, is LASER (which the V1 is the supreme KING of).

    Further while there is no denying the veracity of OR's test, I have not been consistently seeing wins (and fails) like this in my driving experiences (which of course lead to my personal opinions). This is not being apologetic for any relative deficiency, just a fact in my travels. The V1 is winning enough (even on 34.7) for these clear distinctions not to be so clear anymore. This leads to the other characteristics (which I feel are superior on the V1) to matter and outweigh the benefits of the RL on either or both range and off-axis. The same may not be true for others in their travels and I am totally cool with that.

    For me the overall driving experience of the latest V1c has no equal. In fact for me, it's not even close. The V1 hands down is the overall better detector, that is in my opinion. And hence the high praise that I give it. The RL's awesome sensitivity on 34.7 as demonstrated by OR doesn't take away from VR's accomplishments. Let me also be clear, the RL and the STiR series are also awesome and the V1s superiority in other aspects of overall performance doesn't take away from BELscort's accomplishments either. We are ultimately talking very fine aspects of supreme excellence here.

    I may prefer a vintage Pinot Noir from a particular vineyard and you may prefer another. We don't live in a black and white world (unless you are in the ME, apparently), it's all color and diversity and spectrum and degree.

    We don't have to agree on this, mind you, but that is my sincere opinion as it stands now.

    VG

    ---------- Post added at 01:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 PM ----------

    I would absolutely love to see such a test.

    No hiding from the chamber tests, though, when it comes to raw sensitivity, which is ultimately what this test's intent is to show.

    I am curious, has the RL been tested without segmentation and with RDR ON and without segmentation with RDR OFF?

    Those results would be interesting to know as well. Excuse me if they have been done already, I am just not aware if it has been.

    VG
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2014
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  17. PointerCone

    PointerCone M3 Kng Advanced User Premium Member

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    Open would be the guy to ask about that, BUT I do believe that last year (around August-ish) he did test various settings on my RL as well as my V1C and also his RL as well. THUS FAR, ONLY the Redline BSRDR has alerted to his stew test. This is not his first rodeo with these units ;)



    VG, I totally respect your opinion and respectfully disagree, BUT that's why Baskin Robbins makes
    32flavors ;) " The top 5 selling Baskin-Robbins ice cream flavors are Vanilla, Chocolate, Mint Chocolate Chip, Pralines 'n Cream and Chocolate Chip. " You like vanilla, I like Mint Chocolate Chip . Now where's that Philly Cheesesteak you promised me???
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
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  18. Veil Guy

    Veil Guy PSL +15 Advanced User

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    Meaning in segmented form? Not just a newer Redline with that capability?

    For if that is true, then perhaps software does matter, provided hardware permits it. I guess that is the moral of the story, in the final analysis.

    At this point, BandSeg matters, clearly, on the M3. I am not convinced that the speed advantages do on either the new Passport or the Max/Max2. The M4 simply doesn't reap the same rewards. While many have been calling for a segmented M4 and I certainly prefer a quicker detector with any platform, I think it's becoming clear (at least so far for me) that really speed, sensitivity, AND off-axis is the magic combination. The M3's have it, the M4/M5 not so much.

    VG
     
  19. PointerCone

    PointerCone M3 Kng Advanced User Premium Member

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    AFAIK, we never tested it BEFORE BS RDR came out, so it would have to have been with the BS/ RDR OFF . I do believe that he tested it without BS or RDR activated and IIRC it may have failed to alert. The V1C in all iterations has NEVER passed this test, NOR did the Max that I sent. The magic potion in the RL is definitely the BS RDR and the M3 horn (the greatest bucket ever). Open and I spent time on the phone trying all kinds of sweeps on the V1C and could NOT get it to alert. I believe that's a hardware limitation, BUT it also shows the superiority of the RL on OFF axis alerts. His test has it all, a tough road with elevation challenges and extreme off axis as well. It truly is a fringe test that shows just how sensitive a receiver can be.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
  20. Vortex

    Vortex Making Videos Administrator Premium Member

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    Yeah, IIRC, the thinking behind the creation of a stew test in the first place had to do with if BS or RDR had any impact on pure sensitivity. The idea was that if sensitivity itself is unaffected and it's simply reactivity that's making longer detection ranges due to being able to catch those short blips of radar at a distance, if we let a detector sit or stew in an area with weak radar signals, given enough time it should see a blip of a signal that's long enough to make it through and alert to a detector that's sensitive but isn't taking advantage of BS/RDR. Think original Redline or BS/RDR Redline with BS/RDR disabled.

    I believe the Redline alerted in this situation as well which is what gave us the impression that BS/RDR doesn't actually improve sensitivity itself. It improves reactivity which, in the real world with short and weak signals at a distance, can thus improve real-world range. I don't remember at this point if it actually alerted though, but I think it did. Anyone got a link handy? :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
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