Other Running a RLC with the noPhoto

Vortex

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I've been itching to do a realworld test with the noPhoto and tonight I did one. The nearest RLC's to my home are down in Bellevue, so I looked everything up beforehand, mounted the noPhoto, and went for the run. Here's the footage:

Front camera:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLkk4q-TKH0

Rear camera:

http://youtu.be/em9tM1tq05g

All that's saving me now from a $124 red light ticket is the noPhoto. I checked it before and after and it was on the whole time, so it should be working its magic. There's no way to tell from in the cabin.

A few quick notes about this test.. It's a heartpounding experience to do this, knowing you're going out specifically to break the law. Not the greatest feeling in the world, I gotta admit.

It turns out this light was green for a long time and red for a short time, so I had to pull off to the side to wait for it to turn red. The first time I actually missed the red because it turned back to green so fast so this footage is from round two. :p

I took my front plate off before doing the run, not knowing if they shoot front and rear. It turns out these RLC's shoot two rear shots only. I made sure the noPhoto was in two flash mode before I left, just to be on the safe side, and I'm glad that's the default mode.

I'm also very very glad there were no cars coming through the green. (I absolutely checked before turning and waited to do this at night when traffic is low for a reason. There's no way I'd do this if there were cars or pedestrians there.)

Here's some stills from the event which I find especially interesting to see. First up is the approach towards the camera. There's two RLC warning signs on either side of the road stating that the light is Photo Enforced.

rlc signs.jpg

and here's a frame-by-frame of the first flash pop:

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

and here's the second flash:

5.jpg

6.jpg

7.jpg

8.jpg

Interestingly, in the third photo in each series, the one after the BRIGHT flash, you can see the flash dying back down and so it's still visible.

Here's where the first photo is shot. It's right as I'm crossing the first white line of the pedestrian crosswalk. (This makes me wonder if you get a ticket if you don't stop before the line, even if you don't actually run the light. Maybe it detects how fast you're going as you cross too.)

9.jpg

and here's where the second shot is taken. It's right as you're completing the turn so it's obvious you made the turn.

10.jpg
 
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Vehicle 1

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I can totally see how it would be an intense experience! Thanks for doing this.

My girlfriend might need a noPhoto here soon (Pending on Vortex's results :D), she thinks she got busted on a RLC the other day... driving as conservatively as she does, I'm surprised she got "the flash".
 

Jon at Radenso

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Awesome! I spent a minute looking and didn't see a way to check your citations online in Bellvue. Do you know if there is an online ticket-check page or do we have to wait for the snail mail?

The noPhoto definitely fired, at least on the first flash (second flash the video isn't good enough to tell). Check out the flash reflection patterns - first one, you can see the car shadow from the back (red light camera flash). The second shot, you can see a much more diffuse flash pattern with no car shadow (the noPhoto). Third image is no flash. The only thing I don't get is why the building across the street would be illuminated by the noPhoto (was there a mirror surface you drove by or something?) but I don't think it's a second flash from the RLC because the rear video only shows one flash going off and it isn't aimed at the car.
 

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Vortex

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Awesome! I spent a minute looking and didn't see a way to check your citations online in Bellvue. Do you know if there is an online ticket-check page or do we have to wait for the snail mail?
I was just looking too and it looks like trafficcam tickets require you to wait for the mail.

I can search by my plate, but that's for parking violations only.

http://your.kingcounty.gov/kcdc/payonline/

The noPhoto definitely fired, at least on the first flash (second flash the video isn't good enough to tell). Check out the flash reflection patterns - first one, you can see the car shadow from the back (red light camera flash). The second shot, you can see a much more diffuse flash pattern with no car shadow (the noPhoto). Third image is no flash. The only thing I don't get is why the building across the street would be illuminated by the noPhoto (was there a mirror surface you drove by or something?) but I don't think it's a second flash from the RLC because the rear video only shows one flash going off and it isn't aimed at the car.
Good eye! The building across the street is actually being lit by the traffic camera itself. The way my camera worked, the first frame only exposed the lower half of the image and the second frame exposed the upper half of the image. If you look at the pole on the right, it makes it clearer.

So it's actually the traffic camera's flash lighting up the buildings in the distance. That's one powerful flash!! :eek:

Regarding the second flash, my guess is that it's set up to do this:

ou9pie.jpg

Apparently that's what a Redflex ticket looks like. It looks like Bellevue uses cameras from American Traffic Solutions. So does Seattle.

http://bancams.com/get-the-facts/wacameracities/
 
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Jon at Radenso

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I was just looking too and it looks like trafficcam tickets require you to wait for the mail.

I can search by my plate, but that's for parking violations only.

http://your.kingcounty.gov/kcdc/payonline/



Good eye! The building across the street is actually being lit by the traffic camera itself. The way my camera worked, the first frame only exposed the lower half of the image and the second frame exposed the upper half of the image. If you look at the pole on the right, it makes it clearer.

So it's actually the traffic camera's flash lighting up the buildings in the distance. That's one powerful flash!! :eek:

Regarding the second flash, my guess is that it's set up to do this:



Apparently that's what a Redflex ticket looks like. Apparently Bellevue uses cameras from American Traffic Solutions. So does Seattle.

http://bancams.com/get-the-facts/wacameracities/
Ah, that makes sense regarding the shutter. I should have thought of that.

While I haven't tested the Bellevue cameras, we actually have a customer who tested the brand new ATS installation at Gompers Park in Chicago with flying colors.

[“I hope business is going well! I happily received your product on September 29, 2013 and was immediately impressed by its careful packaging.

The noPhoto product was installed on my Corvette within one day so field testing at a brand new American Traffic Solutions speed camera by Gompers Park in Chicago on Foster Avenue. It appears to have worked not only at Gompers Park, but also by my testing using various video and still cameras during numerous lighting conditions and POVs.

Oh, did I mention I am a court-recognized forensic video expert specializing in red light and speed cameras for the last six years? I have testified in court in over one hundred cases regarding photo enforcement.”
 

PointerCone

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And now we wait

> : )

Here it takes 2-3 weeks to get the love letter with full color photos in the mail...... You can also access the video of the even in the link they will give you (if it happens???)

---------- Post added at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 PM ----------

Ah, that makes sense regarding the shutter. I should have thought of that.

While I haven't tested the Bellevue cameras, we actually have a customer who tested the brand new ATS installation at Gompers Park in Chicago with flying colors.
Thats a speed cam though in Gompers Park......................(we've got 50 of them as we speak with another 400 (yes, Four Hundred) planned): http://abclocal.go.com/wls/feature?section=news/local&id=9203444
 

Jon at Radenso

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Thats a speed cam though in Gompers Park......................
True, but they use the same cameras. I have no idea how old the Bellevue installation is though so could be a previous gen setup. Only thing that could play a role is the different angle of the second shot could possibly affect the outcome. We will see soon enough!
 

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Good luck brother!
 

GoDuke

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Vortex, you're a brave man! Thanks for driving into the mouth of the lion for our benefit!
 

OpenRoad

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There is a way to trip the camera w/o actually running the light, but you would not know the results. To trigger most of them, make sure no one is ahead of you and the light is red. Then come up to the light at a rather high speed and brake to stop just before the limit line. It triggers the camera to fire as the software 'anticipates' you are going to run the light due to approach speed. I do this all the time at my local RLC here.
 

Vortex

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There is a way to trip the camera w/o actually running the light, but you would not know the results. To trigger most of them, make sure no one is ahead of you and the light is red. Then come up to the light at a rather high speed and brake to stop just before the limit line. It triggers the camera to fire as the software 'anticipates' you are going to run the light due to approach speed. I do this all the time at my local RLC here.
:p

That makes me think of teasing a dog and the dog sprinting at you, only to get yanked back once he gets to the end of the chain and it snaps him back.
 

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I see in the video that indeed it fires just as you reach the limit line.
 

speeddemon

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(This makes me wonder if you get a ticket if you don't stop before the line, even if you don't actually run the light. Maybe it detects how fast you're going as you cross too.)
Thanks for the test and good luck:p I think that is why there are 2 flashes to see your position after the first and if you are in the same position as the first ie.Just over the line no ticket.
 

Vortex

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Welp... guess who just got a ticket in the mail today. That was unexpected...

http://youtu.be/c3FdluNQuXc

A.jpg

B.jpg

C plate.jpg

So WTF happened? If you look at the zoomed in shot of the license plate shot (I blacked the digits, but you can clearly read the digits), you'll notice there's a hint of a glow on the right side of the plate. It looks like the noPhoto fired, but the timing is off so it didn't fire when the camera was exposing.

The ticket arrived in the mail today, 11 days after I initially ran the light. It's a $124 fine. I've PM'ed Jon about this and we'll see what he says.

I'm moving this thread to the public section now that the results are in and I'm gonna update the noPhoto review post too...

Here's the ticket I got in the mail.

ticket1.jpg

ticket2.jpg

and here's some details on their website:

website.jpg
 
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Jon at Radenso

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Well, I will of course take care of your ticket. I'll have to get out there to test myself but it may not work against those ATS cameras. I would have to say those with the newest ATS cameras should not purchase the noPhoto at this time until I see what's up. It's hard to see if it flashed, can you email me full-size pics?
 

Vortex

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Well, I will of course take care of your ticket. I'll have to get out there to test myself but it may not work against those ATS cameras. I would have to say those with the newest ATS cameras should not purchase the noPhoto at this time until I see what's up. It's hard to see if it flashed, can you email me full-size pics?
Thank you. I'll send you the full res shots in just a sec.

I wonder what the best way is to find out if these cameras are used in your area, or what exactly would need to be done to update the noPhoto.

Something I saw in my testing is that the right flash was more susceptible to flash sync issues than the left flash. When I started going past the sync speed of my camera, the right flash would get weaker and weaker in brightness the faster I'd shoot, but the left one worked better.
 

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Thank you again to Vortex for taking on this risk. Needless to say, he put himself at risk by doing this research for all of us. And I think nolimits should be commended for 1) taking care of the ticket and 2) openly and honestly discussing the product in public. We need to commend and support manufacturers and vendors that operate in this fashion. There are too few out there.
 
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Jon at Radenso

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Thank you. I'll send you the full res shots in just a sec.

I wonder what the best way is to find out if these cameras are used in your area, or what exactly would need to be done to update the noPhoto.

Something I saw in my testing is that the right flash was more susceptible to flash sync issues than the left flash. When I started going past the sync speed of my camera, the right flash would get weaker and weaker in brightness the faster I'd shoot, but the left one worked better.
The sync issues are weird, it shouldn't do that. Could you send me pics?

What's weird to me is that you're right - it looks like the noPhoto had just flashed, but flashed too early or something. The bulb looks like it is cooling down.

Only thing I can think of is that the camera flashed three times? Watching the video it kind of looks like it but it might be because of the shutter effect of your camera.
 

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