Midwest Testing Chapter "MWTC"- Radar - October 5th, 2013

buckdharma

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Re: MWTC - Radar - October 5th, 2013

Thanks Guys,
What bugs the hell out of me on all tests, They show inconsistencies on Like Models. Is QC that bad out of the Factory? Another question I was lead to believe Max version 1.6 was going to improve K Band. Was I wrong?
Respectfully
Don
Biggest difference is vehicle. As I mentioned, the Redline and S7 in the Z4 are considerably lower than other cars. Then factor in that signal pickup from the rear will be considerably different based on how high and centered/off center it's mounted and how the car's roofline interferes with it. Additionally, our testing was not *perfect* - e.g. as pointercone said, there were usually multiple cars on the course at once which can and will produce signal attenuation and/or reflections.

May I ask how distance was determined?
"GPS Tape Measure" app on Android. We tag the location of the source, then as we drive, it updates the distance in meters at 1hz. Data was rounded to the nearest 10m before posting here.
 

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Re: MWTC - Radar - October 5th, 2013

Biggest difference is vehicle. As I mentioned, the Redline and S7 in the Z4 are considerably lower than other cars. Then factor in that signal pickup from the rear will be considerably different based on how high and centered/off center it's mounted and how the car's roofline interferes with it. Additionally, our testing was not *perfect* - e.g. as pointercone said, there were usually multiple cars on the course at once which can and will produce signal attenuation and/or reflections.



"GPS Tape Measure" app on Android. We tag the location of the source, then as we drive, it updates the distance in meters at 1hz. Data was rounded to the nearest 10m before posting here.
The GPS is dead nuts accurate and I recorded the #s as Protias read them out on the alerts etc. We logged going away from stationary source and going to the stationary source. To avoid any "interference", my Max was run BY itself in BK's car with NO other cars on the road and no other vehicles around. Dark was in back seat for verification purposes. It was the weakest of the two Max units. The GPS on my iPad matched Protias' cell phone GPS #s...............Because we were moving, we gave the "fudge" factor of approx 10 meters or about 30-35 feet. (the only exception we made here is the Stir-O which as I stated before, the antenna is mounted in the rear facing rear. We had to use going away from source #s for that one since we couldn't drive the car backwards :) It didnt matter though because it still exceeded the course length. If you see the #s 2235 m or 2250 m, that means course was maxed out in length and unit was still alerting......The O and the Max each did this several times. The difference in 15 m was the end of the road course where we turned around to come back and sometimes there was traffic so we cut it short by 15 m to turn around. The interesting thing about the Stir-O is that even as we turned around at course end, it was STILL picking up alerts and this was facing backward away from the source. Protias and I agreed that if we see one for sale, we're going to snatch it UP and he said NO, its for me and I said , NO its mine (like two big kids).. I regret having sold mine with my last car :(

---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 PM ----------

Thanks Guys,
What bugs the hell out of me on all tests, They show inconsistencies on Like Models. Is QC that bad out of the Factory? Another question I was lead to believe Max version 1.6 was going to improve K Band. Was I wrong?
Respectfully
Don
Well, my Max was the "slower"/weaker of the two tested. Given that, I originally had 1.6 (but again, that's a whole other discussion) , BUT tested with 1.4 . Protias and I and perhaps Dark will get together soon (before winter) and do some 1.6 testing on the Max. (some off axis too). You guys have NO idea how tough it is to test in the backyard and real world. Weather, traffic, snoopers (if you know what I mean) and different vehicles etc all make for tough conditions.
 
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hammerdown

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Re: MWTC - Radar - October 5th, 2013

Awesome job guys! I'm enjoying reading this thread!
 

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Re: MWTC - Radar - October 5th, 2013

You guys have NO idea how tough it is to test in the backyard and real world. Weather, traffic, snoopers (if you know what I mean) and different vehicles etc all make for tough conditions.
So true. We're going to make considerable effort going forward to obtain more organized, consistent, and accurate results as possible. If that means not doing all guns or all tests in one day, so be it. IMO, there were too many variables in Saturday's data.
 

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Great testing and i really appreciate the time and detail put into this, much clearer testing results.

O, and latch times should have nothing to do with detection range.
 

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Nice work everyone. I edited the the thread title for better description. Again, Great Work! :thumbsup:
 

buckdharma

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Re: MWTC - Radar - October 5th, 2013

Is there any more Data from Sunday, I noticed you guys got back together.



Biggest difference is vehicle. As I mentioned, the Redline and S7 in the Z4 are considerably lower than other cars. Then factor in that signal pickup from the rear will be considerably different based on how high and centered/off center it's mounted and how the car's roofline interferes with it. Additionally, our testing was not *perfect* - e.g. as pointercone said, there were usually multiple cars on the course at once which can and will produce signal attenuation and/or reflections.



"GPS Tape Measure" app on Android. We tag the location of the source, then as we drive, it updates the distance in meters at 1hz. Data was rounded to the nearest 10m before posting here.
 

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Re: MWTC - Radar - October 5th, 2013

The GPS is dead nuts accurate and I recorded the #s as Protias read them out on the alerts etc. We logged going away from stationary source and going to the stationary source. To avoid any "interference", my Max was run BY itself in BK's car with NO other cars on the road and no other vehicles around. Dark was in back seat for verification purposes. It was the weakest of the two Max units. The GPS on my iPad matched Protias' cell phone GPS #s...............Because we were moving, we gave the "fudge" factor of approx 10 meters or about 30-35 feet. (the only exception we made here is the Stir-O which as I stated before, the antenna is mounted in the rear facing rear. We had to use going away from source #s for that one since we couldn't drive the car backwards :) It didnt matter though because it still exceeded the course length. If you see the #s 2235 m or 2250 m, that means course was maxed out in length and unit was still alerting......The O and the Max each did this several times. The difference in 15 m was the end of the road course where we turned around to come back and sometimes there was traffic so we cut it short by 15 m to turn around. The interesting thing about the Stir-O is that even as we turned around at course end, it was STILL picking up alerts and this was facing backward away from the source. Protias and I agreed that if we see one for sale, we're going to snatch it UP and he said NO, its for me and I said , NO its mine (like two big kids).. I regret having sold mine with my last car :(

---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 PM ----------



Well, my Max was the "slower"/weaker of the two tested. Given that, I originally had 1.6 (but again, that's a whole other discussion) , BUT tested with 1.4 . Protias and I and perhaps Dark will get together soon (before winter) and do some 1.6 testing on the Max. (some off axis too). You guys have NO idea how tough it is to test in the backyard and real world. Weather, traffic, snoopers (if you know what I mean) and different vehicles etc all make for tough conditions.
PC: I have never been to a RD testing site but I understand what some of the circumstances that you are talking about that you have to deal with to come up with these results. I also know that there are some of us don't know and don't care but will give there two cents worth whether we like it or not. So again I will say a BIG BIG THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS INFORMATION WITH US!
 

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Re: MWTC - Radar - October 5th, 2013

Well done everybody! Lots of hardwork, time, and energy went into doing this, and massive props for the presentation of the data. :)

The interesting thing about the Stir-O is that even as we turned around at course end, it was STILL picking up alerts and this was facing backward away from the source. Protias and I agreed that if we see one for sale, we're going to snatch it UP and he said NO, its for me and I said , NO its mine (like two big kids).. I regret having sold mine with my last car :(
haha! All the talk of the O lately made me want to look into getting one too, but they so rarely pop up as available!
 

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Re: MWTC - Radar - October 5th, 2013

PC: I have never been to a RD testing site but I understand what some of the circumstances that you are talking about that you have to deal with to come up with these results. I also know that there are some of us don't know and don't care but will give there two cents worth whether we like it or not. So again I will say a BIG BIG THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS INFORMATION WITH US!
Well done everybody! Lots of hardwork, time, and energy went into doing this, and massive props for the presentation of the data. :)



haha! All the talk of the O lately made me want to look into getting one too, but they so rarely pop up as available!
Thanks guys!!! Yes Vortex, while the others were busy dropping the signals on the dips and hills (elevation changes) the O was just happily smiling away saying to the others, "is that all you got." Protias and I actually gave up after a while and just focused on the other units in testing!! He's a lucky SOB to still have one!!!
 

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Thanks for the testing guys. Huge effort!

Sorry to read the course was too short. Yeah, 1.4 miles is shorter than I'd use for rear-facing on-axis C/O, albeit undulating with the signal dropping. By the sound of it, any or all of them might could have sniffed out the signal a good ways further away. Not to worry, it's interesting data to ponder anyway.
 

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AWESOME Work! Can't thank you guys enough. Are you taking PayPal donations to support this specific task? I would be glad to donate for all of the cool data you have provided :thanks:
 

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What were the V1C settings?
 

PointerCone

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Re: MWTC - Radar - October 5th, 2013

Thanks everyone! Awesome stuff.

Were both Max'es using v1.4/1.5 FW?
Yes, I had 1.6 BUT we learned that if you powered the unit OFF/Down with the ON/OFF button that it would NOT reboot again at all. I had to download 1.4 to the unit againto get her to work. The good news is for all you Maxinistas, the Scanning Knight Rider Display can now be removed!! Look for it on Tuesday's (tomorrow) update!!!
 

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Re: MWTC - Radar - October 5th, 2013

That first course was tough indeed! My STi-R Plus saw signal at 1700' but then dropped it. Anyway, course was way too difficult and there were a few "safety enhancement people" out. Funny thing was, when we left site 2 and hopped on the freeway, 2 WI SP were sitting in the turnaround area.

Thanks for putting it together Darkpenguin and Protias, and thanks Protias for setting up the event.

That said, while I feel something was definitely up with the max(Mine specifically), I am not so sure it is strictly based on the latch time. Mostly due to it dropping the signal sometimes multiple times, and re-acquiring it further down.

However even with that said, I still have my doubts that either of the max's truly has the ability to beat the redline. Things should be more clear as people get there hands on max's and commence more testing.
2nd course was tough too. In the middle was a dip, so a lot of radar detectors dropped the signal (~700m) and reacquired it going back up the hill. The last 10m of the course was a 10-20' drop! Anyway, there are a couple of places we can test yet (one very urban and one suburbs) that should yield some nice real world results.

Great testing and i really appreciate the time and detail put into this, much clearer testing results.

O, and latch times should have nothing to do with detection range.
It does when driving away from the source. If the Max still holds onto the signal when it can't see it anymore, those numbers are fudged.
 

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Re: MWTC - Radar - October 5th, 2013

THANKS!

Thanks for the efforts and the overall honesty in presentation. It appears the comments made long prior to the testing by some owners pretty much paralleled the overall results.

As expected the owners of the Redline product should be very happy with the results and consistency of the great operation of this product with it's most recent update. The STI-R owners had an excellent showing in the testing results as well.

In a post @ ERF that was made in the Passport Max area after the testing was completed, the OP stated that owners of ERs newest RD might be surprised (with the results).

Knowing what we know today the results and happenings at this event as presented, were not all that surprising. Indications pretty much paralleled the individual postings and videos in various forums over a period of months pertaining to both the good and bad issues associated with this product. The results and comments found in this test were consistent with a huge number of individual tests and many of the unbiased reviews as well as general news and related marketing statements associated the this new products release.

I had also read @ ERF that an owner of the newest ER RD product wished that the new 1.6 beta FW would have been tested as there were statements in posts on ERF made after the testing was over that indicated it had not been tested. I'd bet that the current users with of the 1.6 beta FW felt it may have done better at least on one of the devices.

It has been known for a short while that 1.6 beta has been available to a chosen few. Those few that were likely sought out for their expertise and allegiance to the brand. However like the original release of the product, it seems there may be some question about the viability of the 1.6 FW release given PC's cryptic statement made in a post below the results of the test:

PointerCone said:
...(mine was originally 1.6 beta), BUT that's a whole other story for (ER's Official Representitive) Larry and I to address confidentially. Mine is listed Unit # 2)...
I am sure one day PC will indicate the meaning and need for the confidentiality associated with that comment as it relates to the testing of his device and the October 5th test.

Those that were looking for validation in this statement (whether it be hype, exaggeration or honesty):

Pointman said:
With final production software, the Max is the longest range radar detector available ever, for all guns, all bands.
are finding that ER is probably still waiting to release the final production software.


It would have been nice to have seen more entries of ER's newest product so that a curve could have been developed. It would require more people to have have bought the device and brought it the event. Perhaps next time ER could assist and provide a couple of non-cherry picked production "off the line" models for future testing.

Someone must be very pleased with the results of the STIR-O as both statements and presented results showed it did very well. It is a wonderment as to why that technology (hardware) would not have been used in design and production of the "Finest Radar Detector... ... Ever Made".

Once again, thanks to those that spent their time, money and efforts to do this testing. It appears that the results were done in a scientific manner. Thanks for the presentation as well. I looks like it would be an enjoyable event to participate in.


One thing...

Is this a serious statement?

In the future, Max testing must involve very slow driving near the fringe of reception, possibly even stopping and backing up to find the true edge of reception.
If it is, could it be clarified in relation to the testing of the other devices?

Thanks again!
[HR][/HR]I found this after posting. This must be related to the question related to PC above

PointerCone said:
Yes, I had 1.6 BUT we learned that if you powered the unit OFF/Down with the ON/OFF button that it would NOT reboot again at all. I had to download 1.4 to the unit againto get her to work. The good news is for all you Maxinistas, the Scanning Knight Rider Display can now be removed!! Look for it on Tuesday's (tomorrow) update!!!
 
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PointerCone

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It has been known for a short while that 1.6 beta has been available to a chosen few. Those few that were likely sought out for their expertise and allegiance to the brand. However like the original release of the product, it seems there may be some question about the viability of the 1.6 FW release given PC's cryptic statement made in a post below the results of the test:



I am sure one day PC will indicate the meaning and need for the confidentiality associated with that comment as it relates to the testing of his device and the October 5th test.

Those that were looking for validation in this statement (whether it be hype, exaggeration or honesty):
I will tell you all about it tomorrow. Just update you Max on Tuesday and I'll give you all the answers you need. IN the meantime, a promise is a promise to ER and I wont disregard that!!
 

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Re: MWTC - Radar - October 5th, 2013

Yes, I had 1.6 BUT we learned that if you powered the unit OFF/Down with the ON/OFF button that it would NOT reboot again at all. I had to download 1.4 to the unit againto get her to work. The good news is for all you Maxinistas, the Scanning Knight Rider Display can now be removed!! Look for it on Tuesday's (tomorrow) update!!!
Love the Scanning Knight Rider Display my self. But with it off it shows in full word, a bit larger and does not get rid of the boxed out part.

It does when driving away from the source. If the Max still holds onto the signal when it can't see it anymore, those numbers are fudged.
Certainly does in that case. Would be a pain to subtract the seconds of hold from distance travailed within it.
 

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