Radar Max Locked out LEO -- Could have been bad!!!!

Five Hundred

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Running the 9500ix Highway TSR on; Max Highway TSR on

Traveling on an early morning on a road with no falses. Officer was using a Forward Facing antenna (Facing away from me). 9500ix alerted perfectly, Max on the other hand saw the signal but locked it out :(

http://youtu.be/NeCtAQuwnHY
 

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Wow... I was gonna ask about the cruise alert until I heard you actually unlock the signal in the Max.

I take it you've run that route with both detectors before several times, letting both of them autolearn the area?
 

BestRadarDetectors

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Probably saw the signal and lost it 3 times in the short period of time and it forced itself to lock it out. Poor design for Auto Lock, The process should note the day and the alert should be present on different days for it to auto lock. This is just another reason why I tell my customers not to use Auto Lock.
 

Five Hundred

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Wow... I was gonna ask about the cruise alert until I heard you actually unlock the signal in the Max.

I take it you've run that route with both detectors before several times, letting both of them autolearn the area?
No cruise alert, I travel the road every morning but there are no falses on the road. The initial alert would have grabbed my attention as a possible I/O attack since I know there are no lock outs/falses on that road :p

Probably saw the signal and lost it 3 times in the short period of time and it forced itself to lock it out. Poor design for Auto Lock, The process should note the day and the alert should be present on different days for it to auto lock. This is just another reason why I tell my customers not to use Auto Lock.
I always thought it was SUPPOSED to be counted only once per power cycle.
What scares me is I only heard the 1 alert. When it happened to my IX years ago it was a very weak signal and I think it cut in and out 3 times.

July of last year to be precise :p
http://youtu.be/p20gcPOeQhE
 

PointerCone

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Wow... I was gonna ask about the cruise alert until I heard you actually unlock the signal in the Max.

I take it you've run that route with both detectors before several times, letting both of them autolearn the area?
Probably saw the signal and lost it 3 times in the short period of time and it forced itself to lock it out. Poor design for Auto Lock, The process should note the day and the alert should be present on different days for it to auto lock. This is just another reason why I tell my customers not to use Auto Lock.

And to think we're told this never happens? Like Tom, this is exakalackaly Why I do not run AL/TL.......
 

STiMULi

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Probably saw the signal and lost it 3 times in the short period of time and it forced itself to lock it out. Poor design for Auto Lock, The process should note the day and the alert should be present on different days for it to auto lock. This is just another reason why I tell my customers not to use Auto Lock.
I have a MAX and saw it alert on X-band (full strength) and knowing it was a "false" of some sort I locked out the same freq not once, twice, but three times before it shut the MAX up. I was doing about 65 MPH on a long sweeping 90º left-hand curve.

Pondering the effect of this turn and where I was in the world compared to the X-band source and MAX's point of view as to where I was, it made me wonder how big the circle or square was (depending on how they do the math). It also made me ponder what may be considered the "center-point" of how the MAX does its Auto-Learn coordinates.

Is the center point equal to a preset GEO point (<=> @ some variable)?
Is it the actual first hit point?
Is it some wider max db ratio for a specific circle, square?
Is it the actual GEO coordinates of the first max db hit?
(^DEEP STUFF - read it a few times so you understand my question)

Why did I have to lock out the X-band hit 3 times while it was on the same frequency in about a 1/4 mile?
 

ThyGreyt

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This is why I rather get more falses than to lose the alert of an actual threat

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PhilP

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Probably saw the signal and lost it 3 times in the short period of time and it forced itself to lock it out. Poor design for Auto Lock, The process should note the day and the alert should be present on different days for it to auto lock. This is just another reason why I tell my customers not to use Auto Lock.
If the logic is similar to the 9500 (I don't know why it wouldn't be), you're supposed to go a fair distance away (as in a couple miles or so) and power cycle the thing before it counts it as another encounter of the same signal.


Either way, it's another example of why autolock is not a great idea if your local departments rely heavily on X or K band.
 

M42

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The Max is supposed to employ a new logic with a smaller lockout circle and represent an improvement over the 9500ix. The funny thing is, I've never had any problems with what my 9500ix locked out. I've gotten K band hits in heavily polluted areas where the detector has locked out K band door openers and yet the 9500 has alerted me to the real threat.

This is not the first time something like this has been reported with the Max and it just is something else that erodes your confidence in it. In fact, it's scary as hell. What also doesn't give me confidence in the Max is that the 9500 beats it on K band. Ain't it supposed to smoke every detector ever made? Well, it ain't smoking this one.
 
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alloy00

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This is just another reason why I tell my customers not to use Auto Lock.
Obviously AutoLearn could be better, but more importantly BRD is right. If one doesn't like AutoLearn, turn it off. How a user chooses to use the tools available is up to them, the user. Would the V1 be at fault if you set up super-tight custom sweeps on your V1 and an out-of-tune but within tolerance 35.425 shot was missed? Not an exact comparison but when you can choose whether to use a feature in one particular way or another... don't use it in a way that's not what you want. :)
 

PhilP

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Obviously AutoLearn could be better, but more importantly BRD is right. If one doesn't like AutoLearn, turn it off. How a user chooses to use the tools available is up to them, the user. Would the V1 be at fault if you set up super-tight custom sweeps on your V1 and an out-of-tune but within tolerance 35.425 shot was missed? Not an exact comparison but when you can choose whether to use a feature in one particular way or another... don't use it in a way that's not what you want. :)
Exactly.

Yesterday I was driving through a small town and caught a sniff of a Ka radar at 34.86X or so. While it's possible it was a false, it was a fainter signal with decent ramp up... and just around the corner from the police station. Seems like that small town has at least one radar gun that's WAY out of tune. A Redline set up for 2/5/8 would be completely blind to that one.
 

PointerCone

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Exactly.

Yesterday I was driving through a small town and caught a sniff of a Ka radar at 34.86X or so. While it's possible it was a false, it was a fainter signal with decent ramp up... and just around the corner from the police station. Seems like that small town has at least one radar gun that's WAY out of tune. A Redline set up for 2/5/8 would be completely blind to that one.
As would a V1C with tight sweeps like mine!!

Sure it wasnt the Stalker ATR you were seeing??
 

STiMULi

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I think that like Five Hundred did, diligence in knowing your threats and what your RD is doing one can still use Autolearn. The good thing is when you are traveling in an unfamiliar location you can turn off Autolearn for the first few trips and do manual lockouts instead.

You can do both Autolearn and manual lockouts if you are paying attention though (This is what I do). If you expect to continue use that route and if Autolearn is off you turn it on after later recognizing the LEO hiding spots you may not have previously seen.
 

PointerCone

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I think that like Five Hundred did, diligence in knowing your threats and what your RD is doing one can still use Autolearn. The good thing is when you are traveling in an unfamiliar location you can turn off Autolearn for the first few trips and do manual lockouts instead.

You can do both Autolearn and manual lockouts if you are paying attention though (This is what I do). If you expect to continue use that route and if Autolearn is off you turn it on after later recognizing the LEO hiding spots you may not have previously seen.
Sorry Stimuli, NOT good enough for me!! ALL , and I mean ALL of my GPS enabled units have AL/ TL turned off. I have no issues with excessive falsing, despite being in a high-pop metro area where there's a ton of falses from K. Just can't take the chance. If YOU personally feel comfortable with AL/TL then that's fine. I suggest than anyone who wants to learn more about how it works, read CJR's treatise (its good) about how it works and why.
 

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There's a pretty simple solution that Escort can implement to fix this bug:

When Autolocking a signal out, the multiple individual detections of the same signal should happen over the course of at least an hour or some extended time period.

Drive past the false, go do some stuff, and later drive past it again, and a few hours/days later, yet again. Only then do you lock it out.

This way we avoid multiple immediate sightings within a minute due to things like IO or hills blocking a signal.

In the videos, it looks like the detector is seeing the same signal multiple times and thinking that's repeated passes of a false.
 
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PhilP

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As would a V1C with tight sweeps like mine!!

Sure it wasnt the Stalker ATR you were seeing??
Absolutely no clue what I was seeing... I'm never in that area, I was just passing through. I did get a look at pretty much all other flavors of Ka band on that trip yesterday and the Max handled them all well (even a highway patrol guy who I/O'd me as he went the other way... good thing I saw him before he saw me).

There's always something that can screw up the finely laid plans of mice and men. Whether it's GPS lockouts, band segmentation, or custom sweeps, you need to understand how your particular method can bite you right in the rear. For me, GPS lockouts on X and K are a good risk since local departments don't use those. If they did, well, I'd probably have a non-GPS detector.
 

MrUnknown

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There's a pretty simple solution that Escort can implement to fix this bug:

When Autolocking a signal out, the multiple individual detections of the same signal should happen over the course of at least an hour or some extended time period.

Drive past the false, go do some stuff, and later drive past it again, and a few hours/days later, yet again. Only then do you lock it out.

This way we avoid multiple immediate sightings within a minute due to things like IO or hills blocking a signal.

In the videos, it looks like the detector is seeing the same signal multiple times and thinking that's repeated passes of a false.
Isn't this how it is supposed to work?

I've seen my Max lockout things on the first pass through an area. They were obviously falses, so I didn't care, but it is interesting.

When I update my Max, it merges the lockout data with the data downloaded. Do you think Escort is using reports from other detectors to hurry up false lockouts?
 

M42

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Absolutely no clue what I was seeing... I'm never in that area, I was just passing through. I did get a look at pretty much all other flavors of Ka band on that trip yesterday and the Max handled them all well (even a highway patrol guy who I/O'd me as he went the other way... good thing I saw him before he saw me).

There's always something that can screw up the finely laid plans of mice and men. Whether it's GPS lockouts, band segmentation, or custom sweeps, you need to understand how your particular method can bite you right in the rear. For me, GPS lockouts on X and K are a good risk since local departments don't use those. If they did, well, I'd probably have a non-GPS detector.
We have no X band, but I leave it on and just lock out the falses. K band is scarce but I don't worry about locking out real LEO's. The lockouts, for me anyway, have worked great so far. I did testing against a K band speed sign over several days running a Max, 9500ix and V1 to compare how each did. Neither the Max or 9500ix locked out the speed sign even though I passed by it five or six times, at least three times on separate days. As I was driving home I had the Max on and it had alerted to the speed sign and then a little later down the road it locked out an automatic door that I had passed for the third time on the route I was driving back and forth for the test. And I've had my 9500ix alert me on K band to a real threat in an area where K band door openers had been locked out.

Philip, I/O is dangerous and even the best detectors won't help you if you're not paying attention and get blasted. It's happened to me before and I've learned to use WAZE and scan the road ahead while frequently checking my rear view mirror. It doesn't matter what kind of range your detector has. If the LEO isn't running radar you have nothing to pick up and when he meets you head on, like in your circumstance, and blasts you, you're toast if you weren't paying attention and see him.
 

jdong

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On the MAX I've noticed sometimes when driving past a weak cluster of signals, it'll directly beep and lock it out, on a single pass.

The bright side is, after you drive past that location and the MAX sees no signals there, it'll unlock it. Autolock is the weakest when you pass by a location only 1-3 times.
 

YANKEEBOY75

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And to think we're told this never happens? Like Tom, this is exakalackaly Why I do not run AL/TL.......
Well we've scene this before and fear it none the less. Another reason why I will not get a MAX and perfect situation in this video. Could have had a 1/2 a beer and a 1/2 a sandwich, and a burp, and still would have had plenty of time to go by the officer, with a smile of course with my RL. This makes the 9500ix look good here!
 
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