Ultimate guide to head placement (Jammers) for the Poliscan Speed (with Li's)

Laser Guided

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A lot of time and testing has gone in figuring out the placement of heads for the poliscan. Although this is mainly geared towards Laser Interceptor heads - similar set-ups would be used for other jammers.

Please be aware, the Blinder 905's do not currently jam the poliscan.

The poliscan can be set up to grab you - front/rear on both sides of the car, and up to angles of 45 degrees

Please also see :
Why the Poliscan Speed is such a Pain for Australia – set-ups/complaints/problems : just excellent

HIDDEN mobile radar/laser pictures (you'd be surprised!) : These are some pictures captured by members - well worth looking at

Cases of Invalid Poliscan Photo Evidence : Many people don't realize that there are a lot of photographed speed fines that could easily be avoided, because these fines are mailed out without being checked - LEO expect us to know they are invalid..
frown.png


Working Method against rear facing VPS that requires Quad Li’s on rear of car.

first and totally utmost is height of heads, and THEY NEED TO WORK TOGETHER. - ideally they should be at the same height as the camera, but as camera height can vary we try to cover as much area as possible with the Two Li’s on either side of car, without placing them too far apart ,in height, to leave gaps in detection. For example

View attachment 15596

my side rears are at 980mm from ground level
the very rears are at 740mm from ground level
a difference of 240mm, ideally i would have liked no more than 180mm( poliscan beam width at 10m). I have a 60mm gap in my detection at 10m.
ie where VPS beam could fit between my Li heads without being detected. Try avoiding having any gaps in your height detection.


600mm is huge and why dual rear li's have failed , because they had to be within 180mm of the VPS set up hieght, at a distance of 10m

now that we have detected the poliscan beam, the next thing to do is the angle of heads. This will vary from car to car as to where heads are placed.

When setting angles I first worked out where poliscan would be . I then pointed my side rear facers directly at VPS or actually just a little before it, to give more coverage in the strongest part of LI beam. Working on LI beam spread of +/- 20 degrees ( where really the bulk of LI diodes power is +/- 12 degrees) I overlapped the very rear LI with side rear facers, so as you drive away from VPS the very rear LI will take over from the side rear li. So that there are no gaps in your JTK.
View attachment 15597




Here is ign's thoughts (from an old post - but well worth mentioning)
Guys I have had a fair bit of experience with the VPS. Front and rear targeted. The rear can be basically on any angle (yes goof ball, within reason!!). The software can correct cosine error, but not lane changing or road curvature angles, as these can vary from driving style to driving style. I have had PT on the rear. I took the photo from the infringement and generated an image showing the angle of the photo. This must be clear, the speed is measured prior to the photo being taken. This was at 120kmph, so basically the speed was established while the car was on a more acute angle than shown here. The heavy line is the exact angle of the photo. The VPS was in the median strip about 1500mm from the road side. The LI did alert, but the damage was done. I have my rears angled out at about 20˚. This is why I am still suggesting that a optimum result can be better achieved by having the rear facing heads on the back of the car supplemented by rear facers on the front quarter. These could then be at quite a radical angle.



People who contributed to this thread - Laser Guided, Ignitionss and Nazar
 
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Nazar

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Thanks LG, that right-up is brilliant

i hope people don't forget the "thanks button" for you :)
 

Nazar

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thanks guys, it is nice to show appreciation.....


^^^^ Well done LG
 

Shanetrain

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I'm going to be a bit technical here. The blinder 905 Has a long way to go before it does policscan, but you could possibly compliment it with a brute force 905 signal, it would probably confuse the hell out of the policscan. Not fimilar if they have jam codes or if it would set any off but if someone want to try it the lasers are available here, just need a 3.2v power supply. I have a couple of them and they are very affective (link below)
http://www.aixiz.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/65/products_id/359/osCsid/50ae33bfe1f3ffbf187097457e2727e9
 

blackiwi

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A lot of time and testing has gone in figuring out the placement of heads for the poliscan. Although this is mainly geared towards Laser Interceptor heads - similar set-ups would be used for other jammers.

Please be aware, the Blinder 905's do not currently jam the poliscan.

The poliscan can be set up to grab you - front/rear on both sides of the car, and up to angles of 45 degrees

Please also see :
Why the Poliscan Speed is such a Pain for Australia – set-ups/complaints/problems : just excellent

HIDDEN mobile radar/laser pictures (you'd be surprised!) : These are some pictures captured by members - well worth looking at

Cases of Invalid Poliscan Photo Evidence : Many people don't realize that there are a lot of photographed speed fines that could easily be avoided, because these fines are mailed out without being checked - LEO expect us to know they are invalid..
frown.png


Working Method against rear facing VPS that requires Quad Li’s on rear of car.

first and totally utmost is height of heads, and THEY NEED TO WORK TOGETHER. - ideally they should be at the same height as the camera, but as camera height can vary we try to cover as much area as possible with the Two Li’s on either side of car, without placing them too far apart ,in height, to leave gaps in detection. For example

View attachment 15596

my side rears are at 980mm from ground level
the very rears are at 740mm from ground level
a difference of 240mm, ideally i would have liked no more than 180mm( poliscan beam width at 10m). I have a 60mm gap in my detection at 10m.
ie where VPS beam could fit between my Li heads without being detected. Try avoiding having any gaps in your height detection.


600mm is huge and why dual rear li's have failed , because they had to be within 180mm of the VPS set up hieght, at a distance of 10m

now that we have detected the poliscan beam, the next thing to do is the angle of heads. This will vary from car to car as to where heads are placed.

When setting angles I first worked out where poliscan would be . I then pointed my side rear facers directly at VPS or actually just a little before it, to give more coverage in the strongest part of LI beam. Working on LI beam spread of +/- 20 degrees ( where really the bulk of LI diodes power is +/- 12 degrees) I overlapped the very rear LI with side rear facers, so as you drive away from VPS the very rear LI will take over from the side rear li. So that there are no gaps in your JTK.
View attachment 15597




Here is ign's thoughts (from an old post - but well worth mentioning)





People who contributed to this thread - Laser Guided, Ignitionss and Nazar
Laser Guided - are you based in metro perth?
 

blackiwi

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delete
 
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madhawk

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what do you think which laser jammer can jam the PSS??

and can it jam to 100% ? (how many heads? only front? only rear? front and rear jam ?)
 

winterbrew

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One thing I learnt about the LI's, is that the reception/receive angle is fairly limited, so you have to have them angled out at the correct angle. I had quite a few failure to detects with rear facers, as my LI heads were only out about 10 degrees. Also make sure you run them at maximum sensitivity for rear poliscan detection. The beam width when shot in the back from on 10m (33') is pretty narrow, and easy to get a failure to detect.

Here's an example of a rear facer, missed by 2 x LI rear heads, and detected by the V1 ;

[video=youtube;bDPYYi9190I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDPYYi9190I[/video]

Here's another miss by the LI, and a comparison run with the ALP (alert is static type noise in pro mode). V1 detects rear facer both times;

[video=youtube;WY5SeXJj8rk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY5SeXJj8rk[/video]

A demo of how sensitive the ALP's are. In this one, my front sensors pick up the rear facing poliscan backscatter prior to passing (i.e before my car enters the scanning lidar beam);

[video=youtube;88Yh_gW3jXg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88Yh_gW3jXg[/video]

Madhawk - I don't think any jammer is 100% against rear facing VPS, there's just too many variables (angle, height etc) and easy for IPT from only 10m away. Opinion is that you need at least an LI quad on the back for rear facers, as with a dual, there's just to many holes/spaces on the back for it to get an IPT from 10m. Failure to detect is the major cause of rear VPS shots. The ALP has much better chance of early detection to its high level of sensitivity

I'd say from my experience that on an average size Euro car, setup properly with dual ALP heads slightly angled out, you can achieve virtually 100% JTG.

Kiwi - I run an ALP quint (5 head), 2 on the front, angled out about 10 deg, 3 rear, 1 centre at 0 deg, and 2 outers at 35 deg angle out. Opinion is you need at least two rear heads at about 35 - 45 deg out as a minimum
 

blackiwi

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One thing I learnt about the LI's, is that the reception/receive angle is fairly limited, so you have to have them angled out at the correct angle. I had quite a few failure to detects with rear facers, as my LI heads were only out about 10 degrees. Also make sure you run them at maximum sensitivity for rear poliscan detection. The beam width when shot in the back from on 10m (33') is pretty narrow, and easy to get a failure to detect.

Here's an example of a rear facer, missed by 2 x LI rear heads, and detected by the V1 ;

[video=youtube;bDPYYi9190I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDPYYi9190I[/video]

Here's another miss by the LI, and a comparison run with the ALP (alert is static type noise in pro mode). V1 detects rear facer both times;

[video=youtube;WY5SeXJj8rk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY5SeXJj8rk[/video]

A demo of how sensitive the ALP's are. In this one, my front sensors pick up the rear facing poliscan backscatter prior to passing (i.e before my car enters the scanning lidar beam);

[video=youtube;88Yh_gW3jXg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88Yh_gW3jXg[/video]

Madhawk - I don't think any jammer is 100% against rear facing VPS, there's just too many variables (angle, height etc) and easy for IPT from only 10m away. Opinion is that you need at least an LI quad on the back for rear facers, as with a dual, there's just to many holes/spaces on the back for it to get an IPT from 10m. Failure to detect is the major cause of rear VPS shots. The ALP has much better chance of early detection to its high level of sensitivity

I'd say from my experience that on an average size Euro car, setup properly with dual ALP heads slightly angled out, you can achieve virtually 100% JTG.

Kiwi - I run an ALP quint (5 head), 2 on the front, angled out about 10 deg, 3 rear, 1 centre at 0 deg, and 2 outers at 35 deg angle out. Opinion is you need at least two rear heads at about 35 - 45 deg out as a minimum

Thanks Winter - so if I was to run 7ALP heads - 3 rear (same as you) and 4heads up front on the GTR double grill, I should be pretty good?

If I was to run 7 heads, obviously two control boxes would be needed. I'd assume only 5 sensor could run through the Bluetooth module to the smartphone to control 5 heads (I bought a standalone Samsung phone for the ALP app yesterday) what would be able to turn off/receive mode only, the other two sensors on the second control box?

Or what configuration of heads (front and rear) would you run to either of the two control modules? 4 heads (2xF, 2xR) to one, and (1R, 2F) for the second module?

Obviously I'd like to be able to turn them all into passive/receive mode only using the one dedicated smartphone?

Reason for 3 - 4 heads to front is future protection against inevitable dragon eye infiltration into wa now there's australian suppliers and the guy with the mustang on YouTube that's running alps had massive punch through on dragon eye with just the two sensors.
 
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winterbrew

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Kiwi - its best to let one control box handle all the front sensors, and a separate control box handle all the rear sensors.

If you have two control boxes trying to handle the same end of the car, even if they are the same make, you'll end up with interference and problems, as they'll try and jam each other.

One BT module and phone can only control one control box at a time, so if you have 2 boxes, you'll need 2 x BT modules, and 2 x phones if you want to go the BT route on both.

Planning for the future - if DragonEye ever arrives in WA, it's best to go for 3 heads up front. However Poliscan setup and Dragon setup are very different and not compatible(Poliscan needs to be angled out, Dragon needs them straight (parallel) and preferably with a 3rd middle head). With an ALP quad up front, you could have 2 inner heads straight/parallel for Dragon, and two outer heads angled out slightly for Poliscan.

I've got another spare ALP 5 head that I had on another car before I sold it. When I have a lot of spare time on my hands, I'll probably fit the 2nd unit to my car, and run a triple head both ends (2 control boxes, each with 3 heads). If Dragon ever arrives, I'll run a quad at both ends through 2 control boxes.

For a dual Poliscan / DragonEye environment it would be good to have new heads with two transmit diodes in the same head, one pointing straight ahead, and the 2nd angled out for poliscan. That way, it would minimise the number of heads, and you'd just need to make sure the two heads were straight and level.
 

blackiwi

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Thank you for your time taken to explain.

So would be fair to say run the front 4 heads on the phone app and the rear 3 heads on the Hi Fi module so not to have to run three phones in the car (2x dedicated alp screens) (1x normal phone).

That way also if hi fi module alerts, you know it's rear and if screen alerts it's front?

With the GTR grill, for the 4 heads - what would you place where?

Also, in keeping with Poliscan and dragon eye front set up, should I go 5 Sensors on the front - 2 angled ten degree poliscan, one middle top grill near GTR badge and 3 lower down grill all facing straight?

hC3QBm.jpg
 

winterbrew

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Hi mate, yes, if you go 1 x BT and 1 x HiFi, you can load a male voice pack on one, and a female on the other so you can distinguish front/back.

For the 3 front Dragon heads, I understand they need to be on the same height level in a straight line, so in the upper grille to would have one in each top corner , and the middle one on the same level by the GTR badge. The middle one needs to be plugged into the F2 port only for proper Dragon detection. 2 x poli heads could probably go in the lower grille, although the higher up the better.

It might be best to check with BRD (@BestRadarDetectors ) , as I think they've stated for Dragon that the 'more heads is better' approach may be counter productive with Dragon guns.

I think at this point, its not worth bothering with the Dragon gun setup. They're approved for use in VIC, but no reports of them being seen in the wild yet. Not on any other state or territory approved list yet. You can always add the necessary sensor cables now, and add any extra heads later if required.
 
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blackiwi

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Hi mate, yes, if you go 1 x BT and 1 x HiFi, you can load a male voice pack on one, and a female on the other so you can distinguish front/back.

For the 3 front Dragon heads, I understand they need to be on the same height level in a straight line, so in the upper grille to would have one in each top corner , and the middle one on the same level by the GTR badge. The middle one needs to be plugged into the F2 port only for proper Dragon detection. 2 x poli heads could probably go in the lower grille, although the higher up the better.

It might be best to check with BRD (@BestRadarDetectors ) , as I think they've stated for Dragon that the 'more heads is better' approach may be counter productive with Dragon guns.

I think at this point, its not worth bothering with the Dragon gun setup. They're approved for use in VIC, but no reports of them being seen in the wild yet. Not on any other state or territory approved list yet. You can always add the necessary sensor cables now, and add any extra heads later if required.
Thanks for your help on the phone today Winterbrew, most helpful :)

Install underway and picking up late tomorrow.
 

blackiwi

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Thanks for your help on the phone today Winterbrew, most helpful :)

Install underway and picking up late tomorrow.

NOT HAPPY. NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHY THIS HAPPENED. :ssj:

FRONT SHOT.png
File 18-7-17, 1 40 53 pm.jpeg
 
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winterbrew

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Bad luck mate :(

The yellow horizontal line half way up the evaulation template box shows you where it got its PT / speed sample from.

As the box is off-centred, it looks like it just got you at the last moment, but I think the evaluation template is still valid (box under the wheels)

From the picture of the camera setup, that should have been an easy one to defeat. Any idea from dashcam footage the distance that it flashed you at ?

Unfortunately, nothing is a 100% guarantee against the poli, as every setup is different.

At least the evaluation template now clearly shows the sampling line, so you get an idea of the PT location - a few years back it wasn't shown, or was very hard to see.

Did your LID timer time-out due to early detection, and the system go into warm-up/detection only before you could slow down and pass ?
 

blackiwi

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Bad luck mate :(

The yellow horizontal line half way up the evaulation template box shows you where it got its PT / speed sample from.

As the box is off-centred, it looks like it just got you at the last moment, but I think the evaluation template is still valid (box under the wheels)
Yeh, I think it got me only as I was literally besides it.

From the picture of the camera setup, that should have been an easy one to defeat. Any idea from dashcam footage the distance that it flashed you at ?

Unfortunately, nothing is a 100% guarantee against the poli, as every setup is different.
I reviewed the footage, and I am 0.5m from the white line, 2.5M of shoulder, and 3m behind a small tree for the approx distance from the shoulder to the camera - total distance to car approx 6-7.5M max when photo taken.

At least the evaluation template now clearly shows the sampling line, so you get an idea of the PT location - a few years back it wasn't shown, or was very hard to see.

This is handy to know, but concerning, as two of my heads are in the section near where the line is.

ALP SETUP.png


Did your LID timer time-out due to early detection, and the system go into warm-up/detection only before you could slow down and pass ?
From first audidble alert to passing the camera, was 5.5 - 6seconds, and the ALP sequence is set to 9 seconds. So this shouldn't have been a factor.

Appreciate you thoughts and help to prevent this occuring again. :(
 
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