Aerial VASCAR Countermeasure Discussion (Zaon MRX, ADS-B, etc) (1 Viewer)

STiMULi

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How much credibility should I give to this device when it comes to many military style (if not military) aircraft in the area for drug and illegal alien interdiction. Do you think that because these aircraft may be doing anything at anytime in support of LE activities that they will have traceable transponders activated while outside restricted corridors?

Thanks in advance.
 

protias

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How much credibility should I give to this device when it comes to many military style (if not military) aircraft in the area for drug and illegal alien interdiction. Do you think that because these aircraft may be doing anything at anytime in support of LE activities that they will have traceable transponders activated while outside restricted corridors?

Thanks in advance.
Military aircraft fly much higher than this can read. Besides, you don't need to worry about military aircraft giving you a driving ticket...
 

STiMULi

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Military aircraft fly much higher than this can read. Besides, you don't need to worry about military aircraft giving you a driving ticket...
Silly Rabbit Petty BS is for kids or Elitists
Thanks for your answer but I am sure that it does not apply to this area of the USA.

Perhaps it does you where you live or drive.

In AZ there are portions of the US/MEX border called no mans land. US authorities generally do not patrol it and civilians (non-LE) are often not permitted in those areas as they are thought to be "Cartel Controlled".

What, you say? Low flying military style aircraft, IN THE USA?

YES.

Blackhawk lands in Tucson neighborhood

Posted: Sep 20, 2013 4:53 PM
Updated: Sep 23, 2013 10:18 PM



TUCSON - A Blackhawk helicopter made a precautionary landing Friday in a southside neighborhood. Customs and Border Protection says it happened at 8:35 a.m. when the crew encountered an in-flight safety concern.

The Blackhawk crew landed south of Irvington Road between S. Lostan Ave. and S. Liberty Ave. in order to inspect the aircraft. CBP says everything checked out okay--so the crew took off and returned to Davis-Monthan Air Force Base.
You can find many stories and sitings like this.

[video=youtube;9fuEfn9NWVI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fuEfn9NWVI[/video]
SEPTEMBER 19, 2013

Maybe where you live you can state with authority that someone should not worry about how the military or military style aircraft fly, but here in AZ we have Blackhawks hovering overhead among many different and dark low flying aircraft with many flying as low as rooftop level.

These could be anyone's Blackhawk's.

DEA, DHS or MARINES (please avoid the Posse Comitatus Act discussion for another time because in AZ it somehow -probably ANG or NG - does not apply) and others as they do DIRECTLY SUPPORT LE in all kinds of stuff, including interfering with vehicular traffic.

Tucson also has Davis-Monthan AFB that supports the Yuma Bombing range so the aircraft must actually land, as I promise you they do here at all times of the day and night, and they do not always "fly much higher than this can read" in this area. Often they are jut a few thousand feet from my home and I live 70 miles from the border in a nice area of town.

Since I did not insinuate that military aircraft can give me tickets (off military posts) and I can't see much but a speck in the sky sometimes when it comes to overhead aircraft and I would like to know if I can tell what is and is not LE or just Military or whatever.

I would like to go back to my original question, however this time I will ask it to the OP since he is a pilot and I hope that he could answer the following:

GoDuke,

How much credibility should I give to this device when it comes to many military style (if not military) aircraft in the area for drug and illegal alien interdiction. Do you think that because these aircraft may be doing anything at anytime in support of LE activities that they will have traceable transponders activated while outside restricted corridors?
 
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xydrine

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Doubt they will be flying much this week AND WHO KNOWS HOW MUCH LONGER.
 

GoDuke

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Silly Rabbit Petty BS is for kids or Elitists
Thanks for your answer but I am sure that it does not apply to this area of the USA.

Perhaps it does you where you live or drive.

In AZ there are portions of the US/MEX border called no mans land. US authorities generally do not patrol it and civilians (non-LE) are often not permitted in those areas as they are thought to be "Cartel Controlled".

What, you say? Low flying military style aircraft, IN THE USA?

YES.



You can find many stories and sitings like this.

[video=youtube;9fuEfn9NWVI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fuEfn9NWVI[/video]
SEPTEMBER 19, 2013

Maybe where you live you can state with authority that someone should not worry about how the military or military style aircraft fly, but here in AZ we have Blackhawks hovering overhead among many different and dark low flying aircraft with many flying as low as rooftop level.

These could be anyone's Blackhawk's.

DEA, DHS or MARINES (please avoid the Posse Comitatus Act discussion for another time because in AZ it somehow -probably ANG or NG - does not apply) and others as they do DIRECTLY SUPPORT LE in all kinds of stuff, including interfering with vehicular traffic.

Tucson also has Davis-Monthan AFB that supports the Yuma Bombing range so the aircraft must actually land, as I promise you they do here at all times of the day and night, and they do not always "fly much higher than this can read" in this area. Often they are jut a few thousand feet from my home and I live 70 miles from the border in a nice area of town.

Since I did not insinuate that military aircraft can give me tickets (off military posts) and I can't see much but a speck in the sky sometimes when it comes to overhead aircraft and I would like to know if I can tell what is and is not LE or just Military or whatever.

I would like to go back to my original question, however this time I will ask it to the OP since he is a pilot and I hope that he could answer the following:
I can't speak definitively about the transponder equipment and operation in military aircraft, but since they often fly through controlled airspace, I would suspect that they have transponders that can be interrogated by ATC, which would mean that the PCAS would pick them up if being interrogated nearby. Now, out west, it is my understanding that there is a lot of uncontrolled airspace which doesn't require a transponder to operate. Even Class D and Class E controlled airspace doesn't require a transponder unless within the mode C veil of a Class B Airspace. That said, it would be (in my opinion) an unnecessary risk for an aircraft to turn off it's transponder, even if not required to have it on per the FAA. I'd highly doubt they'd do that.

FYI, types of airspace and operating requirements - http://www.cfibart.com/gs/airspace.html
 

STiMULi

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I can't speak definitively about the transponder equipment and operation in military aircraft, but since they often fly through controlled airspace, I would suspect that they have transponders that can be interrogated by ATC, which would mean that the PCAS would pick them up if being interrogated nearby. Now, out west, it is my understanding that there is a lot of uncontrolled airspace which doesn't require a transponder to operate. Even Class D and Class E controlled airspace doesn't require a transponder unless within the mode C veil of a Class B Airspace. That said, it would be (in my opinion) an unnecessary risk for an aircraft to turn off it's transponder, even if not required to have it on per the FAA. I'd highly doubt they'd do that.

FYI, types of airspace and operating requirements - http://www.cfibart.com/gs/airspace.html
Thanks for the information!

Good stuff...

Can I get/see free aeronautical charts online?

Based on what I read from your link, much of the area I live and travel in most (my immediate vicinity - between Tucson and Phoenix) is Class C or higher controlled and as you stated it is likely that aircraft in those areas will have transponders.

Other areas like from Tucson to El Paso TX is probably in "lower" class airspace but again as you said most pilots may not take the risk.
Even if the risk may not equal the reward, I think it would be interesting to find out if there may be a greater number missing scruples on the part of those those LEAs that may like to catch speeders via aircraft in the boonies of Southern NM. ;)
 

protias

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hazmat780

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Need to invest in some sort of auto guidance anti aircraft system
 

protias

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rjk

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So now that the inexpensive option is gone (Zaon out of business, no more MRX), what alternative devices are there that perform similar functions? About the closest thing that I was able to discover from several hours of Googling was a "PowerFlarm" device with ADS-B functionality - probably close to $2 grand for a "portable" unit. I also saw some references to something called a "Ryan TCAD" but was unable to find an official website for it, and it appears to be even more complex and expensive.
 

lugnuts

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Found this today searching the internet:

https://www.gulfcoastavionics.com/products/3791-xgps170.aspx

XGPS170
GPS + ADS-B Weather Receiver for the iPad and Android Tablets
Catalog No: XGPS170
Manufacturer: DUAL
$549.99


PRODUCT FEATURES
The new XGPS170 GPS + ADS-B Weather Receiver for use with the iPad and Android tablets.

ADS-B Weather (FIS-B)
ADS-B Traffic (ADS-R/TlS-B)

Use with the included antenna or connect to the aircraft's external antenna
Bluetooth wireless connectivity
Connects to two iPad devices simultaneously
Leaves the iPad free to connect to other WiFi devices
Apple iPad®, iPodtouch®, iPhone® and Android support
Works with WingXPro7, EFB, i1000 Flight System and others
Rechargeable battery lasts up to 5 hours of continuous use
GPS also works with apps for car & boating navigation and many others
12-28V charger included to charge the receiver or the iPad
The receiver can also be charged using the iPad wall charger
Adjustable brightness LEDs for day and night flying

*BOLD* = key features I think are useful to us.


this one is a bit more expensive:
https://www.gulfcoastavionics.com/products/3849-ilevil-sw.aspx


click for larger image

iLEVIL SW
Portable ADS-B, GPS, AHRS
Catalog No: ILEVIL SW
Manufacturer: LEVIL AVIATION
$1,195.00

PRODUCT FEATURES
The new iLevil SW incorporates several features found only in multiple systems. The built-in GPS receiver allows for overlay of aircraft position on approach plates and charts, while the AHRS system allows for synthetic vision right on your iPad. In a first for Levil and aviation, the unit has a built in solar panel charger which extends the life of the 3-hour battery on long flights. Weighing only 8 oz and only slight larger than a deck of cards (4.5" x 3" x 1"), the iLevil SW can communicate with several devices at once. The unit is compatible with several apps, including WingX Pro7, which allows for display of the Synthetic Vision, in flight weather and ADSB in traffic.

---------- Post added at 09:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 AM ----------

never mind on the first one found more info on it and it might not work on the ground:

http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/17698?utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Electronic+Devices&device=c&network=g&matchtype=b&gclid=COX2wLyTwr0CFbQWMgodRVUAGQ




GPS+ADS-B Weather & Traffic Receiver

Works with many EFB apps and devices
High-accuracy WAAS GPS delivers precise location information
Delivers subscription-free weather (FIS-B) & traffic (TIS-B) services to your EFB app: NEXRAD radar imagery, NOTAMs, METARs, TAFs, PIREPs, winds aloft, TFRs and SUA updates.
Works with Apple and Android devices
Works seamlessly with a growing number of apps, including AOPA FlyQ EFB, Avilution, Bendix King myWingMan, eKneeboard, Flight Guide iEFB, Naviator, WingX Pro7, and EFIS models from GRT avionics.
Bluetooth connectivity to two devices
Built-in battery lasts over 5 hours of continuous use
Use with included antenna or connect to an external passive transponder antenna
Included non-slip pad holds securely to vertical and horizontal surfaces
12-30V charger adapter and USB cable included
ADS-B coverage varies by location and altitude – does not work on the ground in most locations. Coverage not available outside US. Not all traffic will be shown; coverage will vary based on equipment and nearby aircraft. In order to maximize available traffic information for the display, the aircraft should also be equipped with a compliant ADS-B Out solution like the Garmin GDL 88 or GTX 330ES transponders.
 

rjk

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I think the only way these things can work in an automotive application like how we use them is if they have a built in altimeter, which the Zaon device does have. That's the main feature that any replacement would need, and so far all I can find are devices that read the plane's transponder to find the current altitude instead of using a built in one.

The Zaon did also read the plane's transponder to determine altitude, but it also compared that to what it measured internally in order to assure accuracy.
 

lugnuts

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here are a few more, not sure why they say they don't work on the ground?


http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/17996
http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/20747
http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/17165

can someone that is a pilot chime in on the reason they don't work on the ground? are their things at airports that block the signal?

---------- Post added at 10:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 AM ----------

I think the only way these things can work in an automotive application like how we use them is if they have a built in altimeter, which the Zaon device does have. That's the main feature that any replacement would need, and so far all I can find are devices that read the plane's transponder to find the current altitude instead of using a built in one.

The Zaon did also read the plane's transponder to determine altitude, but it also compared that to what it measured internally in order to assure accuracy.
I have a Zaon could one of these devises be conected to the Zaon altimeter? how expensive would it be to add an altimeter to a car?
 

rjk

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I have a Zaon could one of these devises be conected to the Zaon altimeter? how expensive would it be to add an altimeter to a car?
No, you wouldn't be able to use the one inside of your existing device. To replicate a plane's setup, you would need a full fledged transponder which would report your car's altitude and squawk code for any and all interrogations, thus providing a reference point for the newer devices without built in altimeters. It wouldn't work very well on the ground, and it would cost $20,000 or more. Plus the safety concerns of having a 100 watt 1090 mhz transmitter in your car. :D

---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 PM ----------

However, now that I consider it, I wonder if there would be a way to gratuitously transmit the current altitude on 1090 mhz without waiting for an interrogation from an airport radar. I doubt such a device exists, so you would have to invent it.
 

lugnuts

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I don't want all that crap I just want one of the above devices to work in my car.

Dual band ADS-B traffic

Dual band ADS-B traffic
Stratus includes a dual band (978 MHz and 1090 MHz) ADS-B receiver and displays traffic information right on the ForeFlight Maps page. See relative altitude, climb/descent rate and projected track. Note: ADS-B traffic is limited unless your aircraft has ADS-B Out installed in the panel.
so is that what they mean by limited? is ADS-B Out the ADS-B transponder?

this thing has both In and Out but is $2500

http://www.skyvisionxtreme.com/
 

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Obviously room in the market for such a thing if it can be done right and relatively inexpensively. Just not sure about how large the market for it is, especially since (at least pertaining to users like us) air VASCAR has been discontinued in a couple states like VA (HELL YES).
 

rjk

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I don't want all that crap I just want one of the above devices to work in my car.



so is that what they mean by limited? is ADS-B Out the ADS-B transponder?

this thing has both In and Out but is $2500

http://www.skyvisionxtreme.com/
Yeah, in order for the devices to work, they need to have a good idea of where they are themselves. It's possible that ADS-B would work without a transponder transmitting altitude since it has GPS, but not all planes have ADS-B either.
 

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Yeah, in order for the devices to work, they need to have a good idea of where they are themselves. It's possible that ADS-B would work without a transponder transmitting altitude since it has GPS, but not all planes have ADS-B either.
thats what I am hoping for, I know not all plains have ADS-B but as more move to it it would be nice to add to the PCAS I already have. plus the weather radar would be a nice feature to have its something I have wanted for a long time, weather overlaped on the gps with live updates. if one of these sub $1k units would work without a transponder it would be a perfect addition.
 

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